Hymnbooks

[presbyter]

Far too often we forget that the offertory hymn is an OFFERTORY hymn, not just a random singalong.

I'd be interested to know what you mean by giving the emphasis you do in this sentence. For sure, Rome now seems to prefer the term Offertory rather than Presentation of the Gifts but what sentiment, I wonder, might your selection of hymns express and why? What is an “Offertory Hymn” please? You cite Russill's work (Gracewing 1997 - the Catholic Hymn Book) as an exemplar of good practice. But is it?

Let us consider the nature of the Offertory in itself.

The current GIRM

"73. At the beginning of the liturgy of the Eucharist the gifts, which will become Christ’s Body and Blood, are brought to the altar.............. Even though the faithful no longer, as in the past, bring from their own possessions the bread and wine intended for the liturgy, nevertheless the rite of carrying up the offerings still retains its power and spiritual significance."

Unfortunately GIRM remains silent on what that power and significance might be. The Catechism is more helpful -

1350 - ..... the bread and wine are brought to the altar; they will be offered by the priest in the name of Christ in the Eucharistic sacrifice in which they will become his body and blood. It is the very action of Christ at the Last Supper - taking the bread and cup. 'The Church alone offers this pure oblation to the Creator, when she offers what comes forth from his creation with thanksgiving' (Irenaeus) The presentation ..... takes up the gesture of Melchizedek and commits the Creator's gifts into the hands of Christ who, in his sacrifice, brings to perfection all human attempts to offer sacrifices."

And then GIRM mentions the possibility of singing an offertory chant (37b and 74) - remembering that although we may sing at this point, we do not have to (40).

Gifts are brought to the altar so that they may become the Body and Blood of Christ - the Bread of Life and Cup of Eternal Salvation. That is what is ritually important, musical considerations are secondary. The emphasis is on presenting the gifts and preparing for the offering, which will come in the Eucharistic Prayer. Nothing else, Yet the encouragement that the General Instruction gives for a procession - signifying that these gifts are the gifts of the unified assembly - does highlight and give expression to the strong desire for self-giving within the assembly, which might even make the procession a psychological necessity. (cf Crichton's points in his work on the Mass) I - Fred Bloggs - am associating myself and my life with all its ups and downs symbolically with this bread and wine being placed on the altar. Perhaps I am ..... but please, not yet fully..... and do I have to sing about that to remind myself of what I’m doing?

Nevertheless, the procession is an action of the whole assembly. All present associate themselves with it but surely this "Offertory" of the lives of the assembly symbolised in bread and wine can only be called such in a very weak sense. This is not the moment of offering, only a preparation and, as the prayers state, an acknowledgement that of ourselves we have nothing to offer.

It is only through the goodness of the Father that we have these gifts to bring. It is only through the goodness of the Father that through what/who these gifts will become, we can offer ourselves.

So I suggest that in this short rite, we can see a communal act of humility - a word that has its root in humus, soil, dust - an acknowledgement that all we have and all we are is from the goodness of God. We are creatures, who will return to dust, placing ourselves before the loving-kindness of our Creator but not yet, offering ourselves to him, in and through Christ.

The following invitation to prayer is for the whole assembly to participate in the Eucharistic Prayer which follows. “Pray that our sacrifice…” or “Pray that my sacrifice and yours…”; it’s blindingly obvious from the texts of the Liturgy itself that what now follows, the great Eucharistic Prayer, is going to be the moment of offering of the whole assembly, with, in and through Christ to the Father. Yet on the whole, I suggest that the faithful do not yet see it as such. They can tend to see the Eucharistic Prayer as “the priest’s bit” and consequently, many of our celebrations get distorted by trying to make too much of this preparation of the gifts, in my opinion, to the detriment of participation in the Eucharistic Prayer..

If the faithful see in this preparatory action the moment of offering themselves to God, then the distortion in their understanding of the liturgy is not helped by songs which theologically inept hymn-writers and publishers of pretty tunes have foisted upon our celebrations. We do not, at this moment, offer our lives to God in mere bread and wine. We can only offer our lives to God by actively and consciously joining ourselves with the offering of Christ, through the work of the Spirit. We offer ourselves with Christ - not with bread and wine - and these gifts are not yet him.

“In bread we bring you Lord...... In wine we offer you........” No we don’t!!! (yes, yes, I know that’s not in Russill’s collection) "All that I am...." don't start me on that one!! (not in the collection either)

Perhaps, if we must, we might sing in anticipation of our self-offering and what these gifts will be but could that not be just an exercise in liturgical catechesis rather than a suitable song for celebration? Sing and focus on what God is doing for us and the constant, faithful love of the covenant, not so much songs about us with some bread and wine.

It’s worth looking at the tradition of the Eastern Churches as well. The Eastern Rites - the Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom - have an elaborate procession of the gifts to the altar but what is sung doesn’t speak of offering. It speaks of the holiness of God, our Creator, and our humility before him. Why not sing of that!

Here’s Music in Catholic Worship (71)

The offertory song may accompany the procession and preparation of the gifts. It is not always necessary or desirable. Organ or instrumental music is also fitting at the time. When song is used, it need not speak of bread and wine or of offering. The proper function of this song is to accompany and celebrate the communal aspects of the procession, The text, therefore, can be any appropriate song of praise or rejoicing in keeping with the season. The antiphons of the Roman Gradual may be used with Psalm verses. Instrumental interludes can effectively accompany the procession and preparation of the gifts and thus keep this part of the Mass in proper perspective relative to the Eucharistic Prayer which follows.


And if we look at the index of the Graduale for a flavour of the sort of text we might sing, you will find forty-eight of the psalms listed and two OT canticles.


From where has this tendency to sing about bringing up bread and wine and seeing more in the rite than there is come from? It is not part of the tradition of the Roman Rite as far as I can see.

Turning to Russill’s collection:


no 101, verse 2

O God by this commingling of water and of wine,
May he who took our nature give us his life divine.....

That sounds plain silly - it is trying to paraphrase the prayer of the priest when the water is added to the wine but then, what does that prayer mean in itself? Through the mystery of this water and wine may we come to share in the divinity of Christ who humbled himself to share in our humanity.... The "mystery" is not the commingling surely?

102 focusses more on what we are doing rather than what God wants to do for us

103 is a prayer addressed to Christ rather than the Father - very poor understanding of the theology of the rite

104 sorry but I can’t see this exhortation to lift up our hearts as particularly appropriate - I think the “mire of sin and slough of guilty fears” are getting in my way

105, 106, 108, 109 could fall into the catechetical rather than the celebratory mode

110 Laudate gives us a more understandable version and a more theologically accurate one too - why does Winkworth suggest the possibility that God might not love us, I wonder? (verse 4)

Well that’s fired a salvo at The Catholic Hymnal but it is a broadside and encompasses other hymnals as well. Did I mention “Take our bread.....” ?

My suggestion - forget this genre called Offertory Hymn, singing about ourselves and bread and wine. I personally don’t think it has much of a place in the Roman Rite. Sing instead of what God is doing for us - good scripturally/liturgically based texts. Don’t the Berakoth prayers of the rite itself give us a clue as to what sort of texts we may employ? I’m going to look at those 48 psalms and 2 OT canticles......... and I am going to leave any prayer that God accept our gifts to the Prayers over the Gifts in the Missal.


PS - dont forget that hymns during the celebration of the Eucharist have usurped the place of the proper chants - so why not look at the proper chants to determine roughly what genre of hymn we might sing

[Chris]

PS - don't forget that hymns during the celebration of the Eucharist have usurped the place of the proper chants - so why not look at the proper chants to determine roughly what genre of hymn we might sing

If I'm not mistaken - is it not the case in the Roman Gradual that the Introit, Gradual and Communion texts bear a relationship to the other scriptural texts for a particular day, whereas the offertory chants use the psalms in numerical order. Thus the text of the Introit, Gradual and Communion chant is to illuminate the scriptures/ liturgical texts of the day, whereas the Offertory chant is a (random) psalm. Obviously on occasion the Offertory psalm may have some (direct) bearing on the other texts of the celebration, on other occasions not. Perhaps this gives a hint to what sort of text we might wish to sing at this point in the liturgy, if indeed it is desirable to have singing at this point in the liturgy.

[musicus]

With regard to psalms, we are going to provide an alternative to the responsorial psalm

So while the rest of us are singing a psalm in response to the first reading you'll be doing something else?

LOL - I think it's clear from the context that that is not what he is saying.

It is also, as I am reliably informed, perfectly lawful to use in our post-conciliar liturgy

It would be interesting and useful to have chapter and verse on that, Nick.

Musicus

[mcb]

It is also, as I am reliably informed, perfectly lawful to use in our post-conciliar liturgy

It would be interesting and useful to have chapter and verse on that, Nick.

Article 61 of GIRM 2000.

Praestat psalmum responsorium cantu proferri, saltem ad populi responsum quod attinet. Psalmista proinde, seu cantor psalmi, in ambone vel alio loco apto profert versus psalmi, tota congregatione sedente et auscultante, immo de more per responsum participante, nisi psalmus modo directo, idest sine responso, proferatur.

It is preferable that the responsorial Psalm be sung, at least as far as the people's response is concerned. Hence, the psalmist, or the cantor of the Psalm, sings the verses of the Psalm from the ambo or another suitable place. The entire congregation remains seated and listens but, as a rule, takes part by singing the response, except when the Psalm is sung straight through without a response.

(I found the complete documents here in English and here in Latin. I expect there are more official sources out there but Google is no respecter of authority. And the English version I think is still a 'study version' that hasn't yet been officially promulgated, if that's the word I'm looking for.)

M.

[contrabordun]

I read that through twice, and got two meanings (and my Latin ain't up to resolving it for me). Could somebody do the honours?

Does it mean:
It is preferable that it is sung Responsorially. As a minimum the people should sing the response (i.e. even if the verses are spoken). Sung straight through is acceptable but somewhat deprecated.

Or:
It is preferable that it is sung. Normally it will done Responsorially, but optionally (and equally validly) it can be sung straight through.

Answers on a postcard

[Tsume Tsuyu]

I've read it through about five times now and I still can't decide, but I'm leaning towards your first interpretation.

Then again....

[pirate]

Just to add to the general information, here's what the General Introduction to the Lectionary says:

(GIRM references are from the edition we've been using for the past few years, not the most recent one - sorry for any confusion)

19. The responsorial psalm, also called the gradual, has great liturgical and pastoral significance because it is 'an integral part of the liturgy of the word' (GIRM 36). Accordingly the people must be continually instructed on the way to perceive the word of God speaking in the psalms and to turn those psalms into the prayer of the Church. This, of course, 'will be achieved more readily if a deeper understanding of the psalms, in the meaning in which they are used in the liturgy, is more diligently promoted among the clergy and communicated to all the faithful by means of appropriate catechesis' (Paul VI, apostolic constitution Laudis Canticum in the Liturgy of the Hours (I have omitted the other references)).
A brief remark may be helpful about the choice of psalm and response as well as their correspondence to the readings.

20. As a rule the responsorial psalm should be sung. There are two established ways of singing the psalm after the first reading: responsorially and directly. In responsorial singing, which, as far as possible, is to be given preference, the psalmist or cantor of the psalm sings the psalm verse and the whole congregation joins in by singing the response. In direct singing of the psalm there is no intervening response by the community; either the psalmist or cantor of the psalm sings the psalm alone as the community listens or else all sing it together.

21. The singing of the psalm, or even of the response alone, is a great help toward understanding and meditating on the psalm's spiritual meaning.
To foster the congregation's singing, every means available in all the various cultures is to be employed. In particular use is to be made of all the relevant options provided in the Order of Readings for Mass (see nn89-90 of this Introduction) regarding responses corresponding to different liturgical seasons.

22. When not sung, the psalm after the reading is to be recited in a manner conducive to meditation on the word of God (GIRM 18 and 39).
The responsorial psalm is sung or recited by the psalmist or cantor at the lectern (GIRM 272 and n32ff for this Introduction)

and later...
56 The psalmist, that is the cantor of the psalm, is responsible for singing, responsorially or directly, the chants between the readings - the psalm or other biblical canticle, the gradual and Alleluia or other chant. The psalmist may, as occasion requires, intone the Alleluia and verse (GIRM n68)
FOr carrying out the function of psalmist it is advantageous to have in each ecclesial community laypersons with a talent for singing and correct diction. The points made about the formation of readers apply to cantors as well.


Two, all right, three points:
it seems that in this document singing responsorially is preferred;
and
if the whole assembly is singing the psalm, (a) the heads-in-books syndrome comes into play and (b) how far is this proclamation of the Word?

This of course has nothing to do with hymnbooks, but might be part of another thread...!

pirate

[Nickgale]

Presbyter, you have hit the nail on the head and expressed yourself far more eloquently on the subject than I ever could!! I agree – moreover, if my understanding is correct, the offertory was (in days gone by) one of the parts of the Mass that contained many beautiful prayers (albeit priestly prayers) emphasising the sacrificial nature of the Mass. Perhaps ‘offertory’ hymns should also be focusing on this too, rather then the loathsome Gifts of bread and wine etc that you so rightly consign to the flames! Poor theology, poor poetry and poor music has no place in our liturgy, where only the very best we can offer is fitting. I defy anyone to suggest that In bread we bring you Lord is in any way representative of sound theological understanding, beautiful poetry and well-written music. I may be accused of the musical snobbishness to which MCB referred but I stick to my guns on that one!

But to return to the notion of offertory, we seem to have forgotten that the idea of the Mass as a sacrifice has been present since the very first days of the Church. Justin Martyr refers to the bread and cup of the Eucharist as the “sacrificial gifts of the Christians” (Dialogue with Trypho, 41:3) and Irenaeus of Lyons (cAD 200) develops a doctrine of Eucharistic sacrifice at some length (Adversus Haereses Book IV, 17:5). Irenaeus says that at the Last Supper Jesus made the bread and wine the sacrificial gifts of the New Covenant. These gifts became the sacrifice of the Church which it presents to God through Christ, the pure offering predicted by Malachi. Monsignor Klaus Gamber has written on this and many other aspects of the Novus Ordo in his book The Modern Rite (pub. St Michael’s Abbey Press 2002) and his book is well worth the read.

From the beginning of the church the mass was both a sacrifice and a meal. We now seem to focus on the latter and forget the former. In addition to Presbyter’s suggestions of what we might focus on in our choice of offertory hymn, perhaps one of the purposes of the offertory is to remind us, the faithful, that this is what we are participating in – a sacrifice. The aspect of the Mass as a meal is most apparent in the communion itself. In the Tridentine Mass, the offertory was the place where the idea of the Mass as a sacrifice was most apparent. At the Last Supper, Christ instituted the Blessed Sacrament and thus placed himself in it as Victim, in order to unite himself to us as Victim. This act of sacrificial immolation occurs before the Blessed Sacrament is consumed and possesses beforehand full redemptive value in relation to the bloody Sacrifice on Calvary, hence the fact that we do not necessarily have to receive Holy Communion (though it is desirable) to receive the grace that flows from the mass. People seem to have forgotten this aspect of mass in their focus on the ‘meal’ aspect. Surely the familiar cry of "Balance" is needed here too! Whilst the rite itself has changed, this particular aspect of the theology of the mass (as I understand it) has not. I am in no way a Tridentinist or a member of the Latin Mass Society, so I have no 'Old Mass' axe to grind, but I do think we all have much to learn from reading the beautiful prayers of the offertory in the 'Old Mass', the remnants of which survive in the Novus Ordo. I’d be grateful for your views on this, Presbyter, as one more qualified to discuss such matters than I.

As to your criticisms of The Catholic Hymnal, again we are more or less in agreement – my comments were more geared towards the ‘best of current available resources’ sentiment – that is why I am trying to produce a new book! I would be grateful if you might suggest some offertory hymns that you would like to see in the book.

The chants of the Gradual. Well, whilst I agree that they may in many ways express more accurately the real notion of offertory, they are not necessarily appropriate to the day and to the readings. However, neither do general 'offertory hymns'. At St George’s Cathedral we use the Introit, Alleluia and Communio from the Graduale (together with congregational hymns) but seldom, if ever, the offertory antiphon. The clergy seem to think that the offertory is a singalong opportunity for the faithful, so that they don’t have too long to wait without having ‘something to do’. I may be inviting character assassination by this comment but, given that 80% of our congregation has English as a second language, hymnody is not a common tradition and few of them even bother opening their books no matter WHAT the style of hymn! However, give us a bit of chant and the roof needs to be strapped down! I wonder if there are any lessons in this?

With regard to the comments made by other contributors concerning psalmody, I notice that Pirate has indeed posted the instructions on the in directum singing of the psalm and posted them. Whilst I appreciate that the instruction does express preference for responsorial singing, there is nonetheless provision for in directum singing, whether by choir, cantor/psalmist or assembly. I have to say that, since we scaled down the use of responsorial psalms at St George’s for local liturgical needs, the response of the faithful has been more positive. They appreciate being given the opportunity to sing the psalm themselves and they do not need the Grade 6 aural test ability that most psalm responses require of the untrained congregational ear, not to mention the fact that most people seem to spend more time trying to memorize the response than actually listening to the psalm text being sung by a cantor into a microphone! Again, people may not agree with me but this is, in my own experience, what tends to happen. This is one area where flexibility on the grounds of individual liturgical needs is both required and permitted.

Perhaps musical snobbishness is rearing its ugly head again, but I do think that, quite apart from the reasons mentioned above, the genre of the responsorial psalm does tend to attract rather naff musical settings, including my own efforts. Notwithstanding these comments, I have also heard a number of beautiful settings - the names Alan Rees and Philip Duffy spring immediately to mind, to mention but a couple. By no means am I advocating the abolition of the responsorial psalm - merely that there is a precedent for an alternative which, in certain places, may be more suited to a particular style of liturgy or local practice, and that there is too much rubbish out there when it comes to many setting of the psalms responsorially. And while we are on the subject of psalms, am I alone in disliking the current translation used in the missal? I rejoiced when I heard them say “Let us go to God’s house” was a real howler over the past two weeks. It might as well say 'God’s gaff'! What is wrong with the House of the Lord?!

[dunstan]

I agree so much with the comments about the offertory. I rarely put on an offertory hymn, and have a very small repertoire which I'll use (I will use "Blest are you Lord God ..." because the words are those from the Missal, and I'll use "Praise to the Lord the Almighty"). My PP likes there to be incidental music from the end of the bidding prayers to the Orate Fratres - and it is certainly good exercise in semi-improvisation: taking a piece of music and expanding or contacting it to suit. But while incidental music during the collection seems fine, to have the offertory prayers made silently by the celebrant seems all wrong.

In Lent we simply have no incidental music at all, but at any time of year it seems wrong to almost gloss over the offertory. It might be better to end the music earlier - either before or after the offertory procession.

[gwyn]

As a hymn / song to be sung at the Offertory I love to use a setting of The Cherubic Hymn (of which "Let all mortal flesh keep silence" is a nice arrangement).

There's a lovely setting by Rimsky Korsakoff which is within the reach of most parish choirs:

Let us who mysticaly represent the cherubim
And chant the thrice-holy hymn to the life creating Trinity
Now lay aside all earthly cares that we may receive the King of all,
who comes invisibly up-borne in triumph by the ranks of angels. Alleluia.

[Nickgale]

Very beautiful Gwyn. The Trinitarian emphasis at the offertory was one present in the Old Mass too. There is a beautiful prayer just before the Orate fratres which is well worth reading.

[presbyter]

The Trinitarian emphasis at the offertory was one present in the Old Mass too.

Sorry Nick if I sound as if I'm marking an essay but I feel a need for something more specific than just "Old Mass" - presumably you are making reference to the Missal of Pius V. But that's not a terribly "Old" Mass - in the "Really Old Mass" there are no offertory prayers at all!

Anyway - just a small point - nothing personal

[ssgcgs]

Would the new hymnbook compiler consider new hymns and songs for inclusion in the new hymn book?

CG Sec

[Nickgale]

Well, I think that most people would know what I mean when I refer to the 'Old Mass' - and a few hundred years seems pretty old to me! Yes, I refer to the Mass of Pius V. We could quibble all day about how old things have to be to be referred to as old!! In any case, certainly in England the 'Old Old Mass', the Sarum Use, wasn't all that different on paper to the other regional variations, though the rubrics were. Here are those offertory prayers to which I refer:

Accept, O Holy Father, Almighty and eternal God, this spotless host, which I, your unworthy servant, offer to You, my living and true God, to atone for my numberless sins, offenses and negligences; on behalf of all here present and likewise for all faithful Christians living and dead, that it may profit me and them as a means of salvation to life everlasting.
Amen.

O God, + who established the nature of man in wondrous dignity, and still more admirably restored it, grant that by the mystery of this water and wine, may we come to share in His Divinity, who humbled himself to share in our humanity, Jesus Christ, Your Son, our Lord. who lives and reigns with You in the unity of the holy Spirit, one God, forever and ever. Amen.

We offer You, O Lord, the chalice of salvation, humbly begging of Your mercy that it may arise before Your divine Majesty, with a pleasing fragrance, for our salvation and for that of the whole world. Amen.

In a humble spirit and with a contrite heart, may we be accepted by You, O Lord, and may our sacrifice so be offered in Your sight this day as to please You, O Lord God.

Come, O Sanctifier, Almighty and Eternal God, and bless, + this sacrifice prepared for the glory of Your holy Name.

I wash my hands in innocence, and I go around Your altar, O Lord, giving voice to my thanks, and recounting all Your wondrous deeds. O Lord, I love the house in which You dwell, the tenting place of Your glory. Gather not my soul with those of sinners, nor with men of blood my life. On their hands are crimes, and their right hands are full of bribes. But I walk in integrity; redeem me, and have pity on me My foot stands on level ground; in the assemblies I will bless You, O Lord. Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.

Accept, most Holy Trinity, this offering which we are making to You in remembrance of the passion, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ, Our Lord; and in honor of blessed Mary, ever Virgin, Blessed John the Baptist, the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul, and of (name of the Saints whose relics are in the Altar) and of all the Saints; that it may add to their honor and aid our salvation; and may they deign to intercede in heaven for us who honor their memory here on earth. Through the same Christ our Lord.
Amen.

New hymns? Yes!! Send them in!! I will gladly look at all new material, in fact new hymns would be a real plus for the book. Thanks. Nick

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