Hail Mary in Prayer of the Faithful

[docmattc]

We have discussed here the anomaly of the Hail Mary in the 'bidding prayers' and its history. I do not intend to reopen that debate.

However, a report from a parish in Arundel and Brighton tells me the a letter has gone out from the Bishops' Conference to every parish in the country instructing us to desist from the practice of including the Hail Mary immediately. This letter hasn't made it on to my radar, has it to anyone else's?

[NorthernTenor]

If true (which I doubt), the bureaucrats would be getting above themselves and the Diocesan Bishops abnegating their responsibility.

[Nick Baty]

Here’s the earlier discussion Matt’s referring to.

[HallamPhil]

The instruction has not reached Hallam yet but were it to be issued formally then I would welcome it. For baptisms within Mass (and elsewhere) the Hail Mary, traditional in E&W, is omitted and replaced with the Litany of Saints. But this is to call the saints assistance in favour of the one to be initiated rather than for General Intercession.

[Southern Comfort]

The instruction has not reached Hallam yet but were it to be issued formally then I would welcome it.

Likewise, it has not reached these 'ere parts, but if it did I would give a cheer.

If this has really happened, it would be interesting to speculate on the motivation behind the move. Could it be that the Conference finds itself embarrassed by the fact that the whole world knows that E&W is the origin of this practice, which spread from here to Ireland and from there to the occasional parish in the United States? (International liturgy networks are certainly aware of the role of Archbishop Dywer of Birmingham in this.)

[old barmaid]

How very sad that on a Catholic Forum on the feast of the Annunciation I should read
comments such as these. Why do people want to deny most Catholics, who only attend
Sunday Mass. the opportunity to recite the Hail Mary once a week? It may not be
Liturgically *correct* but is surely pastorally so. A real Prayer of the Faithful instead of
some of the politically correct dross we are often subjected to at this point in the Mass.

[festivaltrumpet]

Why do people want to deny most Catholics, who only attend
Sunday Mass. the opportunity to recite the Hail Mary once a week?

It is apparent from reading the history in the linked thread that the 'people' who ' want to deny most Catholics...' are the legislators of Mother Church in Rome.
One should rejoice that on the Feast of the Annunciation one reads on a Catholic Forum of people wishing to be faithful to the legitimate authority of the Church.

Those Catholics who only attend Mass on a Sunday are not denied the opportunity to pray the Hail Mary at any other time, nor are they denied the opportunity to pray any other prayer. The logical conclusion of your argument is that the Sunday liturgy should contain every approved text for prayer that Mother Church possesses. There is no legislation to prevent one from praying this prayer, or any other privately. It is highly judgemental to assume, from an individual's liturgical attendance, the nature of their private devotion.

In answer to the original question, I too am otherwise unaware of this missive from our Bishops.

[docmattc]

I don't think there's anything to be gained in debating (again) whether or not the Hail Mary should be there. I was simply trying to find out whether this was a genuine instruction from on high, or simply a PP redistributing 'blame' for a decision that, while 'doing the red', is sure to be unpopular. It looks like there hasn't been an instruction from on high, at least not recently.

[Hare]

On the occasions I have attended (and on many occasions played for) mass in several churches in France, I have never known the Hail Mary to be included in the prayers there - although one parish used to recite the Angelus at the end of Sunday mass.

[Nick Baty]

I think it only happens in the UK.

[Southern Comfort]

I think it only happens in the UK.

See my post above concerning Ireland (where it is often to be found, I am told), and the USA (where it is gradually spreading, though still on a very small scale).

[alan29]

In our diocese not only would any such letter not be published, but the celebrating priest would have to be in a biretta, and all the women in mantillas.

[gwyn]

...the celebrating priest would have to be in a biretta, and all the women in mantillas.

Ah! Bliss.

[NorthernTenor]

...the celebrating priest would have to be in a biretta, and all the women in mantillas.

Ah! Bliss.

I almost regret moving south (work, weather and Southwark aside).

[NorthernTenor]

Perhaps many of the faithful like the practice because it connects them with the Marian prayers that I gather used to be said privately during the older form of the Mass; and those who denounce it seem to me to be amongst those who would emphasise the break from that form. Now that we are developing some perspective on these things, perhaps this could be understood as one of those opportunities spoken of by the Holy Father to let the old inform the new, while in its collective, public recitation we acknowledge the reform? This is a just a suggestion - I have no experience of the older form myself (a lack I am determined to rectify).