'I confess...' to ignoring it

[John Ainslie]

I get the impression that some priests are sufficiently unhappy with the grovelling tone of the new 'I confess' to switch their preference to the third form of the Penitential Act as standard. Certainly the majority of the devout faithful at weekday Mass are unlikely to have grievously sinned ever in their lives.

What is your experience - of both saying the 'I confess' and of your priest's usage of it?

[Hare]

Our PP only ever uses the 1st form. We have a regular supply priest who also uses Form 1 but then uses Form 3 as the Kyrie after the Absolution!

[Peter Jones]

Use by a colleague ....... depends if it's on the Missalette. (Yes, these publications are still in use in places)

Use by me - tried it twice at weekday Mass - not at all on a Sunday, yet. Will probably use it throughout Lent. PA (that's Penitential ACT) three - with use of Appendix six - most used so far.

[nazard]

I get the impression that some priests are sufficiently unhappy with the grovelling tone of the new 'I confess' to switch their preference to the third form of the Penitential Act as standard. Certainly the majority of the devout faithful at weekday Mass are unlikely to have grievously sinned ever in their lives.

What is your experience - of both saying the 'I confess' and of your priest's usage of it?

I think there is a misunderstanding here. I assume that you are referring to "mea maxima culpa" which is translated as "through my most grievous fault." You read this as implying that the sin is grievous, whereas the latin uses the adjective to describe the fault. It additionally uses an everyday adjective, biggest, rather than the excessively dramatic "most grievous". The latin is just saying that I have sinned as a consequence of my biggest fault. Now fault is an ambiguous word in english - it can mean my culpability, or it can mean my error or mistake. I think the latin means culpability: we are admitting our guilt, our biggest guilt. Does anyone have a bigger guilt than sin?

Personally I prefer this translation:

"It was me wot did it, it was me wot did it, it was me wot really did it." (Comme le prevoit?)

[John Ainslie]

Since my PP rarely uses the 'I confess' form, I should have looked it up more carefully. It's the whole build-up from 'that I have greatly sinned...' to 'through my fault (x2), through my grievous fault' that I find grovelling.

I do not doubt that we are all sinners. But in traditional Catholic usage, to have 'greatly' sinned - a 'whopper', so to speak - sounds mortal rather than venial. Though the 'I confess' formula dates back to the ninth century, it certainly appealed to the medieval fixation with guilt. And of course until dialogue Mass arrived in the 1930s (the SSG Summer School was one of the rare places one could experience it in that decade) it was a private preparation for Mass by the priest with his altar server(s), not something said by the people.

I welcome the third Penitential Act because it places the emphasis firmly on God's mercy rather than my sinfulness.

[Peter Jones]

Having preached yesterday on the passage from Job and on the Gospel, this thought springs to mind.

How can we place "I have greatly sinned" on an individual's lips when that person might not have "greatly sinned" at all? Job had not sinned, even though his so-called comforters
insisted that he must have done so.

And as regards guilt, I know of someone who carries sack-loads of the stuff - the result of a tragic accident several years ago. No deliberate act - no full knowledge and consent - no sin. Just a tragic accident for which the person in question cannot be blamed.

[nazard]

It is interesting to compare the confiteor, where the sinning is described as "greatly", to the text of the "Suscipe, sancte Pater ", which was dropped from the mass by the 1960s revisers.

"Suscipe, sancte Pater, omnipotens aeterne Deus, hanc immaculatam hostiam, quam ego indignus famulus tuus offero tibi, Deo meo vivo et vero, pro innumerabilibus peccatis, et offensionibus, et negligentiis meis, et pro omnibus circumstantibus, sed et pro omnibus fidelibus Christianis vivis atque defunctis. ut mihi, et illis proficiat ad salutem in vitam aeternam. "

The deleted text describes sins, etc., as innumerable, but does not infer that they are serious (or trivial for that matter). I have always felt that the reformers were trying to play down references to sin in the new mass, but they left "nimis" in the confiteor.

Sinning is mentioned again at the "Nobis quoque peccatoribus", but again with no mention of severity. The reformers left that alone. The "We're all a bunch of sinners" mentality was emphasised in the Tridentine rite because "Nobis quoque peccatoribus" is the only phrase of the cannon, apart from "in saecula saeculorum" which is said aloud. The opportunity to reassure the faithful by saying "de multitudine miserationum tuarum sperantibus" out loud was not taken.

Of course, there is another way of looking at all this. The writers of mass may have felt that people with a real guilt problem might have been reassured by hearing their priest and their fellow parishioners confessing their own great sins. This could backfire since someone with a serious problem might think "If Father's sins are great then mine must be really horrendous." Does anyone have any experience of whether mass is a healing experience or a trigger for guilt trips? My own experience is that I find mass a healing experience, the Tridentine mass working particularly well in this regard, but the new mass better than nothing.

[gwyn]

I feel the new translation beautifully contrasts a loving Father's boundless capacity for forgiveness, with my capacity to require it. While the former translation adequately did the job, that's all it did.

[johnquinn39]

What is your experience - of both saying the 'I confess' and of your priest's usage of it?

I find it hard to bring myself to say it. It just sounds silly (to me). The priest and most people say it, but
somehow, I think they are just going through the motions.

[NorthernTenor]

What is your experience - of both saying the 'I confess' and of your priest's usage of it?

I find it hard to bring myself to say it. It just sounds silly (to me). The priest and most people say it, but
somehow, I think they are just going through the motions.

JQ, might that not be interpreted as judgemental? Sometimes, others feel and think differently to us.

[Peter Jones]

I am wondering if the longer form of the prayer, now with us, might have the exact opposite effect to that of the wishes of the Sacred Congregation. Rome stresses that the Penitential Rite (Act) does not replace the need for sacramental confession, yet now "great sinners" could seem to receive absolution at Mass. I wonder if such a common understanding will arise amongst the faithful.

[alan29]

I am wondering if the longer form of the prayer, now with us, might have the exact opposite effect to that of the wishes of the Sacred Congregation. Rome stresses that the Penitential Rite (Act) does not replace the need for sacramental confession, yet now "great sinners" could seem to receive absolution at Mass. I wonder if such a common understanding will arise amongst the faithful.

I doubt it Peter, the longer form was in use in the days that sacramental confession was a regular part of peoples' lives.

[JW]

Mrs JW has asked wheter people are actually striking their *beep* - I haven't really been looking!

[JW]

The beeps on this forum really are incredible!

[gwyn]

It's catching on gradually here in sunny Abergavenny. The well disciplined Altar Party do it so the example set is a *beep* good one.