The Processional
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Re: The Processional
It is also possible to leave people to contemplation as they prepare to make their communion, by having the choir sing the Proper provided by the Church for that purpose. This can be followed by a suitable hymn, to give the communicants an opportunity to express their prayer in song. I believe this strikes a balance that the irritating tendency to insist all sing everything does not
Ian Williams
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Re: The Processional
NorthernTenor wrote:It is also possible to leave people to contemplation as they prepare to make their communion, by having the choir sing the Proper provided by the Church for that purpose. This can be followed by a suitable hymn, to give the communicants an opportunity to express their prayer in song. I believe this strikes a balance that the irritating tendency to insist all sing everything does not
I thourougly agree with this.
What we sometimes do at the 10.00 is to sing a choral psalm version of the proper. For example, we will be singing Bob Chilcott's 'The Lord's my shepherd' in a few weeks time.
Another thing we sometimes do is to segue into a hymn version of the same psalm, as communion comes to an end.
JQ
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Re: The Processional
Southern Comfort wrote:Far be it from me to criticise John's tremendous effort in pulling it all together, but that does seem to me to be one of the major failings of every enterprise so far (with the exception of the Psallite project): they do not advert to the difference between the three years of the cycle. The Missal doesn't, the Graduale Romanum doesn't (except for Communion Antiphons and psalms, and even there is not entirely successful), the Graduale Simplex doesn't.... and so the Processional has, perforce, reproduced the deficiencies of all three of them. We see here the fruits of a lack of communication between the different task forces of the Consilium, and between the Consilium and the Sacred Congregation of Rites (as it then was).
This comment begs the interesting question: was the three-year cycle a mistake? It was certainly a laudable attempt to bring more scripture into the liturgy in recognition of the wishes of the Council, though the Council was not so specific about the nature of the goal nor how it should be achieved. HWMNBN* rightly points out one of the consequential problems, which is that the connection between readings and Propers is sometimes absent. However, the liturgical function of the Propers, which are much more that mere commentaries on the readings, does not necessarily require that coordination, and this is born out by analysis of the traditional texts.
It is also correct to say that things would have been different if the Consilium had been allowed more control. However, the wish that this had been so misses the evolutionary, not revolutionary character of the liturgy, which is not the property of a particular group at a given time, subject to the intellectual fashions and politics of the day (in this case, some with a particular late 1960's take on the Liturgical Movement, itself a product of the early 20th century), but of the church down the ages, under the cautious guidance of the Holy Fathers. And maybe now we pause for thought a mere forty years on we begin to see the virtue of the evolutionary approach. The 3-year cycle is a case in point. So much of our individual and collective behaviour reflects the annual round; the churches have historically recognised this with an annual lectionary. Readings that only occur once every three years don’t lodge in mind and heart in the way that annual ones do. How much worse would it have been if we had been cast adrift from the ancient Propers too, which we sing in communion with the generations who came before. Sadly, even though they were retained, the common practice of substituting metrical hymns has deprived generations of Catholics of this part of their birthright; and insofar as it attempts to recover that tradition, John Ainslie’s Processional is to be commended.
* He Who Must not Be Named (tho' he's ensured we get the idea when it suits him)
Ian Williams
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Re: musicus
musicus wrote:A gentle reminder of our first and greatest commandment: "Please post in a way that is respectful of other users." (Forum rule 1)
And, yes, we will be consistent in requiring that of everyone.
I'm delighted to hear it, M. Thank you.
Ian Williams
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Re: The Processional
The 3-yr. lectionary is something for another topic, I think.
(For me, anyway, it is THE UTTERLY OUTSTANDING reform we have experienced at V2 -- and so joyfully unites us with the other liturgical churches).
Back on topic -- hats off to Mr. John Ainslie. The Processional is in my view an outstanding resource.
So -- how do we bring this to life? How do we turn these psalms and pericopes into something digestible that Joe & Mary Catholic will warm to and make their own?
What I have been doing so far, is to look at already existing music settings (both RC & otherwise) and use the nearest thing.
Shall we compose new music in various styles -- perhaps with a 'Proper for the week'?
Shall we explore these texts using Jazz, Reggae, Motown, Blues, Folk styles?
Maybe the choir could sing the psalms to Schutz, Bortnyans'ky or even Pärt?
What about allowing new forms of music to emerge?
What do people think?
(For me, anyway, it is THE UTTERLY OUTSTANDING reform we have experienced at V2 -- and so joyfully unites us with the other liturgical churches).
Back on topic -- hats off to Mr. John Ainslie. The Processional is in my view an outstanding resource.
So -- how do we bring this to life? How do we turn these psalms and pericopes into something digestible that Joe & Mary Catholic will warm to and make their own?
What I have been doing so far, is to look at already existing music settings (both RC & otherwise) and use the nearest thing.
Shall we compose new music in various styles -- perhaps with a 'Proper for the week'?
Shall we explore these texts using Jazz, Reggae, Motown, Blues, Folk styles?
Maybe the choir could sing the psalms to Schutz, Bortnyans'ky or even Pärt?
What about allowing new forms of music to emerge?
What do people think?
Re: The Processional
Lots of really constructive suggestions about how to do something else instead of plan A, (and like everyone else I accept the need for a work-around on occasions,) but what I was hoping at least to attempt was to try the preferred option first - ie the antiphon with verses. I heard this attempted in St Peter's in Rome a couple of years ago and I liked the treatment of the verses alternating between plainsong and an ornate setting (rather on the lines of the Allegri Miserere which will be familiar to many). I confess that the congregation resolutely did not sing the Antiphon even there but I thought it worth a try. The publication of the Processional seemed to make this possible but although in the introduction it says
I'd dearly love to have them.
Q
unless I am being particularly stupid the actual text of the verses is not present - just the identity.These antiphon and psalm texts have been brought together in English translation in this document.
In addition, in the absence of psalm verses for the antiphons in the Missal, the verses
proposed in the unpublished ICEL Antiphonal of 1997 have been added.
I'd dearly love to have them.
Q
Re: The Processional
Is this an opportunity for the SSG composers group: to divide up the processional between composers who are prepared to set the texts? Just a thought as there seems to be some demand.
JW
Re: The Processional
Just to say that there will be more news about the Composers' Forum and its new range of activities over the next week or so!
Keith Ainsworth
Re: The Processional
Well, one last try then . .
Any suggestions? (Apart from"leave us alone" or the equivalent )
Q
earlier I wrote: . . . although in the introduction it saysunless I am being particularly stupid the actual text of the verses is not present - just the identity.These antiphon and psalm texts have been brought together in English translation in this document.
In addition, in the absence of psalm verses for the antiphons in the Missal, the verses
proposed in the unpublished ICEL Antiphonal of 1997 have been added.
I'd dearly love to have them.
Any suggestions? (Apart from"leave us alone" or the equivalent )
Q
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Re: The Processional
The references to the psalm verses are given, but not the texts themselves, for the following reasons:
1) The currently approved version of the psalms for liturgical use in England and Wales is the Grail Psalter, original 1963 version. The copyright on these is administered by HarperCollins through its copyright agent, who is extremely particular about the excerpting of psalm texts - and costly as well. As you may have read from other posts, there is considerable relief that the use of the latest version of the Grail Psalter, known as version 4, is being administered on a somewhat freer basis. However, that version is not yet approved for liturgical use in E&W, and there are some considerable reservations about it.
2) The work of compiling the Processional took many months. To have provided all the texts of the psalm verses when these could be found in existing books would have been a luxury which I did not consider worth the additional time and expense.
1) The currently approved version of the psalms for liturgical use in England and Wales is the Grail Psalter, original 1963 version. The copyright on these is administered by HarperCollins through its copyright agent, who is extremely particular about the excerpting of psalm texts - and costly as well. As you may have read from other posts, there is considerable relief that the use of the latest version of the Grail Psalter, known as version 4, is being administered on a somewhat freer basis. However, that version is not yet approved for liturgical use in E&W, and there are some considerable reservations about it.
2) The work of compiling the Processional took many months. To have provided all the texts of the psalm verses when these could be found in existing books would have been a luxury which I did not consider worth the additional time and expense.
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Re: The Processional
JW wrote:............Just a thought as there seems to be some demand.
John has made a treasury of texts available to us with this Processional.
I think rather than speak in terms of a demand, we might firstly give much consideration as to what is truly needed in the concrete, pastoral circumstances of our parishes and communities. A beneficial starting-point, I suggest, would be to use GIRM and CTM for guidance and food for thought.
I could sit down myself, for example, and conscientiously compose melody after melody after melody for strings of antiphons. Yet I know that if I did so, the results could tend towards the formulaic, the prosaic, the mundane and the utilitarian. I'm adept at writing boring music and boring music destroys prayer.
In preparation for an article in M&L, I am looking hard at the Communion Antiphons in the Processional. I'll save the complete results of my pondering and rumination for the magazine, rather than post them here. For now, I will say that I think the initial approach to these texts needs to be decidedly selective, and not only in the sense of gathering a common repertoire of suitable antiphons and psalms. A selective approach within the texts of the antiphons themselves is needed. For example - Third Sunday of Lent:
The sparrow finds a home,
and the swallow a nest for her young:
by your altars, O Lord of hosts, my King and my God.
Blessed are they who dwell in your house,
for ever singing your praise.
No one in an assembly, on the move in a Communion Procession, is going to commit all that text to memory and sing it whilst approaching the sacrament (priests and religious would go into auto-pilot and sing the familiar Grail text). Yet an extract, such as "Blessed are they who dwell in your house" could be enough.
John's Processional is a great and welcome resource. As to how composers begin to use it pastorally, will exercise our imagination and creativity - and common sense.
(And before anyone mentions the Psallite project - yes, I am looking at that too.)
Last edited by Peter Jones on Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Any opinions expressed are my own, not those of the Archdiocese of Birmingham Liturgy Commission, Church Music Committee.
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Re: The Processional
johnquinn39 wrote:Shall we explore these texts using Jazz, Reggae, Motown, Blues, Folk styles?
Not simultaneously.
Any opinions expressed are my own, not those of the Archdiocese of Birmingham Liturgy Commission, Church Music Committee.
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Re: The Processional
I'm not in any way belittling the Processional, John (John Ainslie - three posts back). It's an enormous step forward. But why specify the unpublished Antiphonal as the source of the verses to go with the Communion antiphons (or at least the admittedly few I have looked at so far) when it is unavailable, and even if it were available it is not permitted to be used? I had hoped to use the escape clause offered by the GIRM (" . . . (3) A song from another collection of psalms and antiphons . . ") while recognising the Catch 22 (at which the Church is so adept) " . . approved by the Bishops' Conference of England and Wales". I hoped to trump that ace by pointing out that a processional psalm with a response sung by the assembly would be at least closer to the mind of the church at that point than some random ditty from an equally unapproved hymnal.
Q
Q
Re: The Processional
A question that keeps coming back is whether Psallite renders it unnecessary to set the Processional. For Feb 2nd, we're going to use the Psallite Nunc Dimittis and antiphon (unaccompanied) for the lighting of the candles.
Having just read Peter's comments, I looked at the the Psallite 'Song for the Table' Antiphon for the 3rd Sunday of Lent and it is:
'Happy are they who dwell in your house, Blessed are we for you live in us.'
Issues with Psallite for me are
1. The cost (just under £20 for the full music (though you don't need congregational copies).
2. The antiphons/responses are paraphrased to a greater or lesser extent but hopefully this will continue to be permitted ''....or another chant''
As for composition, I have only composed if there is a need - I don't get inspired to compose and anyway others are writing much better stuff than I would. If composers are inspired by items in the Processional we can look forward to seeing the results. It may be that a through-composition of the Processional would be fairly boring, on the other hand it may be a cheaper resource than Psallite.
I'm looking forward to reading Peter's thoughts in M&L.
Having just read Peter's comments, I looked at the the Psallite 'Song for the Table' Antiphon for the 3rd Sunday of Lent and it is:
'Happy are they who dwell in your house, Blessed are we for you live in us.'
Issues with Psallite for me are
1. The cost (just under £20 for the full music (though you don't need congregational copies).
2. The antiphons/responses are paraphrased to a greater or lesser extent but hopefully this will continue to be permitted ''....or another chant''
As for composition, I have only composed if there is a need - I don't get inspired to compose and anyway others are writing much better stuff than I would. If composers are inspired by items in the Processional we can look forward to seeing the results. It may be that a through-composition of the Processional would be fairly boring, on the other hand it may be a cheaper resource than Psallite.
I'm looking forward to reading Peter's thoughts in M&L.
JW