Liturgy Office - unjust prejudice?

[MaryR]

I think the Liturgy Office qua liturgy Office should make no videos whatsoever of commercial products.

You could say that if the recording acknowledged the composer and identified the piece. It doesn't! It's a learning aid, if you like. It's not promoting anything, except perhaps the idea that singing the parts of the Mass is not as daunting as some might think.

[mcb]

I think the Liturgy Office qua liturgy Office should make no videos whatsoever of commercial products.

Nope, still can't see it. Making a video of a commercial product is a funny way to talk about recording a liturgical celebration. How do you feel about the fact that the Beatification Mass, featuring all manner of "commercial products" was videoed, and is still on show as an exercise in shameless marketing?

[Peter Jones]

.......and is still on show as an exercise in shameless marketing?

Of what?

[Nick Baty]

....... the person directing the music is (as far as I am aware) a member of the Formation Committee of that Office/Department and also, the person who is the main, commercial distributor of this music in E & W. He might possibly even be the composer of the music.

But none of us knew this until you told us. As far as I knew this was a cantor I recognise, leading a piece of music I don't know published by an unmentioned publisher. And why are we all getting so hot under the collar now rather than when the videos were first posted.

[mcb]

Of what?

I've no idea! You're the one who... Never mind. Peace!

[Southern Comfort]

I think the Liturgy Office qua liturgy Office should make no videos whatsoever of commercial products.

The Roman Missal is itself a commercial product..... Are you suggesting that the Liturgy Office should not be making demo videos of it?

PS: I don't see the Responsorial Psalm on the website, but I happen to know that the psalm used was by a composer who died a number of years ago, published in a book which has been out of print for many years. Not much prejudice there, I think.

[alan29]

Its not very good, though is it. It certainly wouldn't make me want to rush out and spend money on it. So if it is marketing, then its a fail.

[Peter Jones]

Are you suggesting that the Liturgy Office should not be making demo videos of it?

Given that every parish in the country already possesses such a resource, perhaps I am.

[Nick Baty]

Do we?

[NorthernTenor]

Does anyone have anything else to discuss that doesn't involve bashing the Liturgy Office?

it seems to me that there continue to be comments on matters other than the failings of the Liturgy Office - all to the good. The car-crash that is the permission to publish process and the similar problems with granting of the NO to collections have also generated comment - also good, and such is the discourtesy, incompetence, injustice and dishonesty in the administration of these processes that they are worthy of a crescendo of negative comment until action is taken to resolve the problems and ensure they don't recur. I realise that institutions prefer to brush problems under the carpet, but I would hope the Bishops' conference would have worked out by now that that's a bad idea.

[mcb]

a crescendo of negative comment

OK, but let's not lose sight of the fact that the negative comments in relation to the permission to publish process, and to the Liturgy Office, have come repeatedly from a small number of people, and to my mind have repeatedly been expressed intemperately and with a marked lack of courtesy to those charged with difficult or impossible tasks.

[MaryR]

The car-crash that is the permission to publish process and the similar problems with granting of the NO to collections have also generated comment - also good, and such is the discourtesy, incompetence, injustice and dishonesty in the administration of these processes that they are worthy of a crescendo of negative comment until action is taken to resolve the problems and ensure they don't recur.

I understand your frustration with the process, NT, really I do, and I am sympathetic, but you've made your point, over and over. If the Liturgy Office has not yet resolved outstanding issues, then I imagine that things are rather more complicated than they appear to the rest of us. I doubt very much that it is simply brushing them under the carpet and I feel desperately sorry for the one person who seems to be bearing the brunt of the often unkind remarks that have been bandied about. I am sure that work is going on behind the scenes to resolve the problems with the panel process and patience might be what is needed here:

Colossians 1:11 May you be strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience...

I know very little about the Nihil Obstat process but my understanding is that this is entirely separate from the panel process. I am sorry, though, if an obedient publisher might be being prevented from earning a living because of delays in this process.

[NorthernTenor]

I understand your frustration with the process, NT, really I do, and I am sympathetic, but you've made your point, over and over. If the Liturgy Office has not yet resolved outstanding issues, then I imagine that things are rather more complicated than they appear to the rest of us. I doubt very much that it is simply brushing them under the carpet and I feel desperately sorry for the one person who seems to be bearing the brunt of the often unkind remarks that have been bandied about. I am sure that work is going on behind the scenes to resolve the problems with the panel process and patience might be what is needed here:

Colossians 1:11 May you be strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience...

I know very little about the Nihil Obstat process but my understanding is that this is entirely separate from the panel process. I am sorry, though, if an obedient publisher might be being prevented from earning a living because of delays in this process.

I understand your distress, Mary: the church to which we are committed is a vast, ancient bureaucracy (arguably the oldest and most successful of its kind), with all the strengths and weaknesses that implies. Its functionaries are individuals whom we may know and like; it has preserved the deposit of our faith over centuries; but put the nicest people into bureaucratic positions ill-matched to their talents and you have a disaster in the making. I don’t say this just of the Liturgy Office’s unfortunate lay point-man, but of the two layers of his clerical management, too (I have a little parish experience of one of them and have fond memories of him).

It doesn’t do the individuals or the institution any favours to ignore this problem, even if the thought of it makes one personally uncomfortable. Indeed, I would suggest that loyal Catholics with a particular interest in liturgy and music have a duty to engage discretely with the bureaucracy when it’s patently off the rails; and if it refuses to engage, to publicly and remorselessly criticise it for as long as it continues its ill behaviour. To pass by on the other side murmuring that those in charge surely know what they’re about is a response that the incompetent and worse love, because it means they don’t have to account for their actions. We know this from areas of ecclesiastical abuse far, far worse than anything we’re discussing here, but the same deferential attitude permits and encourages both.

[Dom Perignon]

Whilst I wouldn't say that the processes are 'off the rails', there are clearly issues. I understand that some of the 'discrete engagement' to which you refer is taking place. I would suggest that we leave it at that for a week or two and see what happens. Your points have been clearly made (and it is right that this forum has provided a place for you to make them). I know that many of us have a lot of sympathy for your position, but it might be helpful if there were no further attacks on individuals, either express or implied.

[Peter Jones]

I understand that some of the 'discrete engagement' to which you refer is taking place.

Well that's encouraging. I'll now wait to see what emerges from behind the scenes.