Why I'm putting on 'As I kneel before you'.

[johnquinn39]

I'm putting the above on after the comm. antiphon is sung on the 4th Sun. of Lent.

Okay -- liturgists may view this as misleading and heretical. It is certainly in bad taste,
but I have heard worse in terms of words & music.

After so many years, I am now just too old to tell people that it is 'liturgically inappropriate'.
I have tried to introduce Marian hymns on feasts of Our Lady, but parishioners simply refuse
to sing them.

At my parish (not where I serve) -- they insist on a Marian hymn at EVERY Mass. - But they did
not sing any hymns to Our Lady at all on the feast of 'Mary, Mother of God'.

Why am I not in the least bit surprised?

Why is it that Mothers Day and May have usurped the official liturgy?

What are other SSG bloggers doing?

[Nick Baty]

Why is it that Mothers Day and May have usurped the official liturgy?

I'm not sure they have. We certainly will not mark Mothers Day on 4th Sunday of Lent, apart from giving everyone flowers as they leave – and which they're asked to pass on to their own mothers or to someone who has mothered them.

We're a Marian parish so on Marian feasts, we might include songs about Virgin Mary. Songs to her are reserved for Marian devotions. We ended Mary Mother of God by moving to our Marian shrine after Mass to sing O Mother Blest – on 8 December we do the same with Mary Immaculate, Star of the Morning.

[NorthernTenor]

We're a Marian parish so on Marian feasts, we might include songs about Virgin Mary. Songs to her are reserved for Marian devotions. We ended Mary Mother of God by moving to our Marian shrine after Mass to sing O Mother Blest – on 8 December we do the same with Mary Immaculate, Star of the Morning.

That sounds frightfully Puritan, Nick. Hymns to Our Lady are commonly sung after Mas, as a recessional hymn. The exception might be the "Ave Maria", sung as a request for her help in the intecessions. Given her particular role as advocate, auxiliatrix, adjutrix and mediatrix, that's not unreasonable.

[johnquinn39]

'That sounds frightfully Puritan, Nick. Hymns to Our Lady are commonly sung after Mass, as a recessional hymn. The exception might be the "Ave Maria", sung as a request for her help in the intecessions. Given her particular role as advocate, auxiliatrix, adjutrix and mediatrix, that's not unreasonable.'
-- Ian Williams

Is the recessional to Our Lady the RC equivalent of the guru's cat?

As far as I am aware, there is no recessional in the Roman Rite, and we are not allowed the Ave Maria at the intercessions.

And, yes, 'Given her particular role as advocate, auxiliatrix, adjutrix and mediatrix' why is there so little interest in genuine Marian devotion? (Although I saw a beautiful new hymn to Our Lady by David Haas, over at Pray Tell a while ago).

[NorthernTenor]

As far as I am aware, there is no recessional in the Roman Rite

That's the basis of my point, John - the recessional hymn is not part of the Rite - it occurs after we have thanked God that the Mass is ended, and so is classed as a devotional song.

...and we are not allowed the Ave Maria at the intercessions.

I don't see a prohibition anyware authoratative; I'm aware there was once a suggestion by the Bishops' Conference that Dioceses might encourage parishes to phase it out, but that's a different matter. I'm not aware of any members of the Conference who have decided to act upon the suggestion in their own dioceses (or, indeed, in their own cathedrals), tho' I suppose there may be exceptions to the rule - it's entirely up to the individual Diocesans. Personally, I suspect the suggestion was an ill thought-through timidity about the place of Mary in our faith. Perhaps those concerned thought it might please our Protestant friends.

As for David Haas' new song: I'm pleased to hear of it, as I have never thought we should let aversion to sentimentalism and vulgarity weigh too heavily on our judgement in respect of popular devotions.

[johnquinn39]

Okay NT

You are glad to hear of it -- but have you heard it?

[NorthernTenor]

Alas, John, in the words of the great Peter Williams (no relation), life’s short and there’s too much much good music to listen to. I shall just have to prioritise.

[nazard]

... (Although I saw a beautiful new hymn to Our Lady by David Haas, over at Pray Tell a while ago).

Would you point us more specifically at this new hymn? I have had no success searching.

[Peter]

A couple of years ago I played at a Confirmation Mass, not in my own parish but as a guest. The Communion hymns were: "Be still for the presence", "One Bread, one Body", "This is my Body" and ... "As I kneel before you". The first three seemed appropriate enough but when I queried what a Marian hymn was doing at Communion the only answer I received was "The children chose it"! I don't know on what basis they chose it - maybe they only looked at the first line and assumed it was about kneeling before Our Lord rather than Our Lady, rather as some people look on the first five words of "Gifts of bread and wine" and assume it's an Offertory hymn - but surely there should be some sort of guidance as to what is liturgically appropriate? A former PP of mine once invited a child to choose the hymns for Sunday Mass, but after he ended up with the Butterfly Song and "Shine, Jesus, Shine" he never repeated the experiment!

[gwyn]

I'm guessing that kids'll choose from their familiar repertoir, that will almost invariably explain most choices. There's always the dreaded adult statement "It's what young people like". A presumption rather than the result of a consultative process.

When the traditional mass was set free a few years back, the leader of our Children's Lit of the Word group said just befor our first parish celebration of it that she wouldn't be bringing the group back into mass at the offertory since "they don't like this sort of mass". She herself would not have remembered it and the kids had most definitely not have ever experienced it.

Control is an interesting process.

[nazard]

Don't assume that the children haven't noticed this phenomenon - one of the little darling once told me about the youth liturgy leader, "Sarah (name changed to protect the guilty) doesn't ask us what we like - she tells us."

[gwyn]

Don't assume that the children haven't noticed this phenomenon - one of the little darling once told me about the youth liturgy leader, "Sarah (name changed to protect the guilty) doesn't ask us what we like - she tells us."

Bendigedig.

[musicus]

Brilliant, indeed, Gwyn.

[VML]

This is a favourite of our PP. It turns up at every other funeral.