Kevin Mayhew

[Hare]

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere (in which case perhaps someone could point me in the right direction?) but what is the situation regarding Kevin Mayhew and the New Translation? I have seen nothing in any of their publicity, and some that arrived on my mat today is still advertising Catholic Hymns Old And New, presumably with the old settings............?

[musicus]

Hare, in the thread 'Panel Decisions', on 6 August last year, Colin Mawby posted as follows:

Further to the message about Kevin Mayhew. I have now asked him if he will be submitting music to the censorship panel. He confirms that he will have nothing to do with the process. I hope that in time other composers and publishers will take a similar attitude - this is the best way to speed the inevitable collapse of the current episcopal pantomime. Colin Mawby

I have seen nothing since then to suggest that this is no longer the case.

[Hare]

Thank you. I wonder if people are still buying Hymns Old & New with the old settings........?

[JW]

Thank you. I wonder if people are still buying Hymns Old & New with the old settings........?

We certainly won't be. Our main congregational hymnbooks are Hymns Old & New Revised, dating from the mid 80's and are out of date. I would like to switch to Laudate, once the new edition incorporating the supplement with the new settings is published. First though, approval is required from the Liturgy Committee and the cost is quite substantial.

Kevin Mayhew 's attitude as quoted by Colin Mawby could well lose him money.

[keitha]

Surely the role of the Liturgy Committee is limited to giving the parish priest its views on whether to ditch the Mayhew book on liturgical grounds only. Whether or not to spend the money is a decision for the PP. We dropped Hymns Old & New in 2002 in favour of Laudate, and, whilst it has its faults, it has given us nearly 10 years of good service, the books are still in good condition, and none of the parish music groups regrets the decision.

[justMary]

I'm pretty sure that a proposal of the "set of hymn books and accompany materials" size would need approval from the Finance Committee - AFAIK, the one parish body whose decisions cannot be overruled by the PP.

[Peter Jones]

.......the Finance Committee - AFAIK, the one parish body whose decisions cannot be overruled by the PP.

Cough, cough .......... not exactly justMary. An RC parish finance committee is not an Anglican parish church council.

[JW]

Didn't mean to lob in a bone of contention, honest! Of course liturgy committees are advisory only - but, as a believer in collegiality, I wouldn't want to fly in the face of ours.

My point was that Kevin Mayhew's attitude to requests by the powers that be that Mass settings be approved prior to publication means, in practice, that I would prefer to use hymn books which contain approved settings and which have received the required nihil obstat. If we purchased a new publication which includes the old paraphrased Mass settings, some will assume that it's OK to keep using them, even though we did much work to change to approved published settings (whether in the USA or UK) last September.

My personal attitude to the translation has not changed since it was first introduced and I dislike the current desire to control everything from the centre, wherever that may be. However, if we are Catholic we have to work with the Church because of the 'top-down' nature of our authority. The alternative is to end up on the sidelines or to follow the many who have given in and joined another manifestation of Christianity.

I do have a lot of sympathy with Kevin Mayhew's views and he and others have my admiration for their principled stands, NorthernTenor's frustration about the Panel and its lack of accountability, expressed elsewhere in this forum, is another example of principled objection.

Frankly, what I think we need is some serious leadership from respected English (Welsh/Scottish/Irish) Catholics, along the lines of the Austrian church reformers, to unify dissidents, to highlight and to try to change whole areas of perceived Catholic orthodoxy. Till such leadership arises, individual side-swipes will probably remain fairly ineffective. The reintroduction of the Tridentine Mass after its banning by Paul VI and the reversal of trends in the church post Vatican II, demonstrate just how effective such well-led campaigns can be.

Please would moderators feel free to delete this post if you wish.

[Nick Baty]

...he and others have my admiration for their principled stands

It might well be a principled stand, JW, but is it a principle most of us would agree with?

The approval process means that music collections will not be able to include the authorised texts if they include Israeli Mass, Ash Grove Gloria etc. So publishers will have to decide whether or not to toe the line. Of course, there's nothing to stop publishers continuing to use all sorts of paraphrases unless our bishops forbid the purchse/use of such collections which, I suspect, they won't.

The inclusion of paraphrases in a nicely bound and presented collection does suggest, as you say, it's "OK to keep using them" – although, of course, it was never OK in the first place. I remember the early days of the one-man imprints when so many – Inwood, Walker, Tamblyn & co – were producing hand-written scores: It was so difficult to persuade our parish musicians that this stuff, sometimes printed on brightly coloured paper (I remember Mr Walker using dayglo orange!) was OK when some of the items in Celebration Hymnal were not.

[NorthernTenor]

Nick's comment misleads by omission & association. As he knows, criticism of the process also comes from those who, unlike Mr. Mayhew, are committed to textual fidelity, but object variously to the secrecy, absence of accountability, party interest, dishonesty and incompetence that have characterised it thus far.

[NorthernTenor]

Frankly, what I think we need is some serious leadership from respected English (Welsh/Scottish/Irish) Catholics, along the lines of the Austrian church reformers, to unify dissidents, to highlight and to try to change whole areas of perceived Catholic orthodoxy. Till such leadership arises, individual side-swipes will probably remain fairly ineffective. The reintroduction of the Tridentine Mass after its banning by Paul VI and the reversal of trends in the church post Vatican II, demonstrate just how effective such well-led campaigns can be.

I’d like to point out that it’s possible to condemn incompetence, injustice, dishonesty, lack of accountability, secrecy and an obsession with control in the administration of one’s Bishop’s Conference without straying into the paths of heterodoxy (just as one can enjoy JW’s company while disagreeing with him). I’d also like to observe the irony that the call for the concentration of power in Bishops’ Conferences and the banning of the older form of the Rite are frequently supported by those who criticise Rome for incompetence, injustice, dishonesty, lack of accountability, secrecy and an obsession with control ...

[Dom Perignon]

We are now beginning to drift away from the topic of this thread - the position being adopted by Kevin Mayhew in his publications. Can we please 'drift back'.

[Peter]

On another thread

This statement appears on the Decani Music website:

... We would like to have [the revised Laudate] available now, but we are awaiting a Nihil Obstat, a new requirement for hymn books that says that the contents are in line with church teaching. ...

Will this "new requirement" be enforced to the extent that parishes will not be allowed to buy hymnbooks without a Nihil Obstat or that a date will be set beyond which they are not allowed to use books without a Nihil Obstat that they already own? If so, how will their compliance be monitored and what action will be taken if they don't comply? If not, it would seen that Kevin Mayhew can continue to publish what he likes, whether or not he's damned for it.

And the longer we wait for the Nihil Obstat for the new Laudate the more time there is for parishes to continue to use Kevin Mayhew's hymnals and buy replacements for their worn-out copies.

[Nick Baty]

I heard yesterday, from a reliable source, that Kevin Mayhew Ltd has decided not to publish any settings of the new translation.

[gwyn]

It's a peculiar stance he's taking Nick. I can't quite work out what, if anything, he hopes to gain by keeping on the outside.