The Trouble with Communion Processionals and beyond…

[Peter Jones]

This joining to the celebrating community of those who cannot be physically present seems to be a powerful inclusive symbol.....

Indeed and the extraordinary ministers here do take the Eucharist immediately after Sunday Mass to the housebound. Yet does this need some form of verbal blessing or commissioning? I myself do not do that.

[Southern Comfort]

I read SC's comment simply as a polite challenge and a suggestion of how things could go.

Thanks, Nick.

I was not chastising, nor even talking about something which is in the documents, since it isn't. I was simply stating a point of view.

No, I have no idea how long Matt tried to change praxis, nor what difficulties were in his way (maybe a PP, or choir members, or servers, or ministers of communion, or who know what?). But the fact is that if we want to do something enough, we can find a way. I have heard so many people over the years saying that Communion under both kinds was not possible, especially in large celebrations where there are lots of people milling about. I say: not so. All logistical problems can be solved, with time and patience and most especially willingness to persevere — and a very large dose of imagination!

Matt, what I said was not judgmental, simply factual. Sorry if you took it like that. If I had said "It's so easy just not to try", that would certainly have been judgmental. Instead, I said (mildly, I thought) that I would like to contest the viewpoint expressed (i.e. that it had been tried and did not work logistically; to which I would reply All logistical problems can be solved....as above). I could have been much more brutal about that, but knew that there were probably lots of other factors in play and so I wasn't.

It would be really good to know what the problems were, and why they couldn't be overcome. It seems to me that that is just as important a part of this thread as Peter wanting us to provide data for his next article but one.

[Southern Comfort]

This joining to the celebrating community of those who cannot be physically present seems to be a powerful inclusive symbol.....

Indeed and the extraordinary ministers here do take the Eucharist immediately after Sunday Mass to the housebound. Yet does this need some form of verbal blessing or commissioning? I myself do not do that.

Brentwood provides a form of words, and so do other dioceses' guidelines for Lay Ministers of Communion. I think saying something draws the assembly's attention to the fact that those housebound and hospitalised people are important to us.

"Take the Bread of Life to those who cannot be with us today [some places even name names — e.g. Mrs Smith, Mr Jones, Sister Thing], and assure them of our prayers for them" seems to be a useful way of saying that they are incorporated by extension into this celebration of the Eucharist.

[Peter Jones]

"Take the Bread of Life to those who cannot be with us today [some places even name names — e.g. Mrs Smith, Mr Jones, Sister Thing], and assure them of our prayers for them" seems to be a useful way of saying that they are incorporated by extension into this celebration of the Eucharist.

OK and, of course, I know colleagues who do something similar. So how might this affect the musical aspects of the celebration of the rite? If, for example, there's going to be a processional song and some silence and a song of praise, where does this, what I will call for sake of argument, "extraordinary dismissal" of the ministers of the Eucharist take place? Are matters becoming somewhat cluttered if it does take place?

[Peter Jones]

By the way - does anyone's community leave the purification of the vessels until after Mass? I do know of one parish fairly locally where all the vessels are placed on the credence table after Communion and covered with a large, white cloth. The 'washing up" - as some people seem to want to call this action - is undertaken by a deacon while the coffee and biscuits are being consumed in the parish hall.

Post-Mass purification is the custom in the Cathedral, little more than a mile away, undertaken by extraordinary ministers, daily.

[Peter]

I read SC's comment simply as a polite challenge and a suggestion of how things could go.

To coin a phrase, "I agree with Nick". I too saw the controversial remark as "playing the ball rather than the man" and nothing like the exchanges that so regrettably got out of hand recently - and even then on mercifully few threads. Indeed I have some sympathy with it: since at my church the choir and musicians go up last, I feel awkward when, as does happen from time to time, I sing or play at a church where the practice is for them to receive first, or at least after all the servers have done so.

However, I don't feel it's my place to tell the other churches they are wrong: indeed, I can see why they do it. It makes practical sense where the Communion procession is accompanied by one or more hymns, and the hymns are accompanied by a small number of musicians. If a hymn is still going when all other communicants have received but the musicians haven't, then either the priest is kept waiting for the hymn to finish or the hymn has to be truncated. This used to happen at my church when we had hymns at this point and the way we "made it work" to go up last was, as explained in an earlier post on this thread, to use a mostly unaccompanied Taizé chant, which ends naturally when the the last of the singers receives. However, on the rare occasions (notably Christmas) when we have a hymn for the Communion procession, the musicians do receive first; we simply haven't got the numbers to go up in relays so that some can keep the music going while others receive.

This thread has been a fine example of what is best on this forum: a courteous and objective exchange of ideas about what happens in various churches, in the same spirit as the majority of threads on this forum. Let's keep the forum open and those ideas coming in.

[BTW, in case this post seems rather inconsequential, several others appeared between my starting and posting it!]

[Nick Baty]

If a hymn is still going when all other communicants have received but the musicians haven't, then either the priest is kept waiting for the hymn to finish or the hymn has to be truncated.

Peter's illustration possibly shows why the hymn is the least suitable music form for the communion procession. Better a psalm with a refrain or an ostinato chant.

And I do sometimes wonder why musicians have so much trouble working out how much music is needed. After a few weeks in a particular place, you soon get an idea how long communion takes (festivals and feasts aside). In the early days in my present place I used a stopwatch – these days I can usually gauge what we need.

I've also worked in places where the priests expects the music to finish by the time he returns to the chair, regardless, so he can get on with it.

[Peter Jones]

Post-Mass purification is the custom in the Cathedral, little more than a mile away, undertaken by extraordinary ministers, daily.

At a quick glance, I cannot see this option in GIRM or CTM or in the rubrics in the Mass text itself, but to some extent, SC might have a point here....

.........because those in Rome have no concept of what it is like at the grass roots: they have never seen lay ministers of Communion.........

Both GIRM and CTM do not seem sufficiently to take on board that a principal Sunday celebration might require four patens/ciboria and eight chalices (ratio of two chalices to one paten)

[Peter]

So how might this affect the musical aspects of the celebration of the rite? If, for example, there's going to be a processional song and some silence and a song of praise, where does this, what I will call for sake of argument, "extraordinary dismissal" of the ministers of the Eucharist take place? Are matters becoming somewhat cluttered if it does take place?

In the case of the church I referred to in a previous post on this thread, the "extraordinary dismissal" was purely verbal, taking place if I recall correctly just before the blessing, or maybe just after the Postcommunion Prayer and before the notices. However, I think I returned to my place for the blessing and went out with the rest of the congregation (I started to write "returned to my place for the final hymn" but then remembered that at that Mass we didn't usually have one but left accompanied by an organ voluntary instead - it's a few years ago now and my memory is not what it was). For this reason, "extraordinary dismissal" may not be the right term; "commissioning" may be a bit too formal, so how about "entrusting"?

[Peter]

By the way - does anyone's community leave the purification of the vessels until after Mass? I do know of one parish fairly locally where all the vessels are placed on the credence table after Communion and covered with a large, white cloth. The 'washing up" - as some people seem to want to call this action - is undertaken by a deacon while the coffee and biscuits are being consumed in the parish hall.

Post-Mass purification is the custom in the Cathedral, little more than a mile away, undertaken by extraordinary ministers, daily.

At my church the Blessed Sacrament is not reserved on or behind the altar but in a side chapel. For a time it was our custom for the EMs to take the vessels to this chapel after Communion and purify them there during the silence that followed. Then, following a change of PP, they were left on the altar and purified by the EMs after Mass. Now the priest himself does the purification, at the altar immediately following distribution.

[Peter Jones]

And I do sometimes wonder why musicians have so much trouble working out how much music is needed. After a few weeks in a particular place, you soon get an idea how long communion takes (festivals and feasts aside). In the early days in my present place I used a stopwatch – these days I can usually gauge what we need.

And I think this is an over-arching and cogent point. The documents appear to me to give little consideration to the time taken by the rite. Communion, given the use of extraordinary ministers, doesn't take much time and our communion processions are dignified but quite brief. So perhaps musically, do we need an antiphon AND psalm verses for the procession - or is an antiphon enough? (Perhaps repeated,Taizé style?) Is the Psallite approach the answer, pastorally?

Where do we go with this? Flexible musical forms or different repertoires for assemblies of diverse sizes?

[Peter Jones]

Has anyone - apart from me occasionally - tried this order of events.

Communion processional (with refrain for the assembly) - leading into Song of Praise - then choir communion - then all, silence?

[Peter]

Peter's illustration possibly shows why the hymn is the least suitable music form for the communion procession. Better a psalm with a refrain or an ostinato chant.

Agreed, which is why we use the latter. Yet I suspect hymns are the norm for many churches with no choir, where all the singing is congregational accompanied by an organist or music group, who will presumably want to receive some time. Congregations like that without anyone prepared to act as cantor would find it hard to adopt a responsorial psalm at this point (they will probably have read rather than sung the one between the first two readings). Getting them to adopt an ostinato chant instead might be possible, but it's all rather like a psychiatrist changing a light-bulb.

And I do sometimes wonder why musicians have so much trouble working out how much music is needed. After a few weeks in a particular place, you soon get an idea how long communion takes (festivals and feasts aside). In the early days in my present place I used a stopwatch – these days I can usually gauge what we need.

I could never gauge it, partly because attendance can be quite variable. Another reason why I prefer not to use Communion hymns.

[Nick Baty]

Hear! Hear!

[VML]

Has anyone - apart from me occasionally - tried this order of events.

Communion processional (with refrain for the assembly) - leading into Song of Praise - then choir communion - then all, silence?

We have been trying this form over the last few months, and hope it will get better. As with other posters here, we have a number of choir who are also EMs, and it is taking some time for the assembly to get used to continuing singing while choir receive.
Various parish developments have meant that we now have no regular choir practice, so progress is slow.
We do sing quite a lot unaccompanied, but when I am not leading, the others tend to start the processional with guitar, which does rather mean people are more likely to stop singing when the guitar stops. Our PP would like to have silence after Communion, so we try to make the hymn end at the right point. We do have a recessional hymn too.