What's going well?

Well it does to the people who post here... dispassionate and reasoned debate, with a good deal of humour thrown in for good measure.

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JW
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Location: Kent

Re: What's going well?

Post by JW »

Southwark Day (report for Hare :wink: ):

The day was run by Mag Shepherd and there were about 90 attendees. The morning was mainly given to learning at some of the new settings. We looked at the Holy Holy and one of the acclamations from Liam Lawton's Glendalough Mass (this is written for SAB so you can get away with relatively few men - if you understand what I mean). We also learnt the Glorias from Peter Jones' A Parish Mass, Marty Haugen's The Storrington Mass and Paul Inwood's The Pymouth Mass.

The afternoon was given over to several Advent and Christmas pieces, including "Christ, Circle Round us" by Dan Schutte based on the 'simple' 'Salve Regina' chant (Off Topic: why was the solemn Salve Regina rarely sung in the places I lived in England? - in my opinion it's a much better setting - back On Topic). We also sang Alan Smith's setting of the psalm for Second Sunday of Advent B, a children's Christmas song by, I think, John Bell, plus, as it's November, John Bell's 'For All The Saints Who've Shown Your Love' to 'O Waly Waly - which I still associate with Terry Pratchett, rather than a Somerset folk song!

Mag also supplied many many tips on singing and general choir/music group behaviour at Mass, especially to come to Mass early and properly prepared and to pray the whole Mass, i.e. after the Gloria there is a prayer that we should be involved in - when the priest says 'Let us pray' we should do just that. She reminded us that many choirs in Catholic churches are seated in full view of the congregation and that children/young people will be taking our example as to how we conduct ourselves in church.

An excellent day. The next is a day run by Paul Inwood at the Christian Education Centre in Tooting.

If you want to be informed of these days, email nicholas.pointer@btinternet.com requesting to be put on his mailing list.
JW
kerrezza
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Parish / Diocese: Southwark
Location: Kent

Re: What's going well?

Post by kerrezza »

I agree with JW was an excellent day. I did hear a couple of grumbles that it was too 'happy clappy' but I'm in a very traditional parish and didn't think so. Was good to meet you JW if only briefly.
Hare
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Re: What's going well?

Post by Hare »

Nick Baty wrote:After a few weeks of singing the new texts – a few months in some places – what's going well in your community? And/or what has your assembly found tricky. I'm sure we're not the only ones to have tried a setting or two and to have binned them! :(


We have been using Belmont at all sung masses since the beginning of September (although we had been using the Kyrie, Alleluia and Agnus Dei since November) The congregation sing along well with the choir at 10.30, and the cantor gives a good lead at 8.30 when there is no choir. At the Saturday Vigil Mass it is just organ - no cantor or choir although one of he cantors came for a couple of weeks to teach and get things going. Here, the Gloria goes ok once someone in the building makes a start; the Sanctus goes ok, but the 1st acclamation (the only one we've done so far) totally "floors" them for some reason!

Next setting to introduce will be The New Celtic Liturgy, then Peter Jones' Parish Mass.
JW
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Re: What's going well?

Post by JW »

It was good to meet you as well, Kerrezza, and welcome to the forum. It's a time of change for music ministry and we will be criticised whatever we do, sometimes with greater vehemence than one would criticise another branch of Christianity. Change is always difficult, as some of us found out post V2. So its good to have the support of our fellow musicians and members of our parishes and to remember that we are all Catholics trying to make our way through life in the way that we hope is best pleasing to God and to try to use Love to ease the tensions that exist. We also need to be confident in our training and our sense of was is right for our particular community.

What's going well? In the words of Mother Julian of Norwich "All shall be well and all manner of things shall be well"

Years ago I thought Mother Julian was a 'he' as the Latin neo-scholastic philosophy text book always referred to 'Julian of Norwich'! and always to refute with impeccable syllogisms something she had written: so the liturgy ain't all that's changed, or do they still teach philosophy like that?
JW
Gedackt flute
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Re: What's going well?

Post by Gedackt flute »

JW wrote: ... we will be criticised whatever we do, sometimes with greater vehemence than one would criticise another branch of Christianity. Change is always difficult, as some of us found out post V2. So its good to have the support of our fellow musicians and members of our parishes and to remember that we are all Catholics trying to make our way through life in the way that we hope is best pleasing to God and to try to use Love to ease the tensions that exist. We also need to be confident in our training and our sense of was is right for our particular community.


This is SO true. I have been yelled at for not putting on Marian hymns in May & October (at Mass) and reliably informed that not to do so is sinful. Also told that to sing the Alleluia is 'taking it away from the people'.

I think what needs to be remembered is that change is indeed difficult, and that what may come over as being strange, or even banal and mediocre on first hearing, may later emerge as a classic. (I loathed 'One bread, one body' when I first heard it!)

Back on topic, the guitar group are leading the 'new' Mass of Creation (Haugen). Some people are joining in the Gloria and the Sanctus, but non-choir people refuse to sing the memorial.

Most are gradually getting the 'and with your spirit'. The new translation is I think widely ignored. One parishoner said that she will 'bring [her] old missal along, and leave the new translation to those who understand it'.

I suppose in the long run, Joe & Mary Catholic will decide whether the new translation and any musical settings that come with it are successful.
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Nick Baty
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Re: What's going well?

Post by Nick Baty »

Gedackt flute wrote:Also told that to sing the Alleluia is 'taking it away from the people'.

As the Alleluia is sung by the people, how can singing it be taking it away? :?
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Calum Cille
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Re: What's going well?

Post by Calum Cille »

Nick Baty wrote:
Gedackt flute wrote:Also told that to sing the Alleluia is 'taking it away from the people'.

As the Alleluia is sung by the people, how can singing it be taking it away? :?

Because people are given the right not to sing, Nick. Such people then feel that their right to mumble the mass has been taken away from them.
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Nick Baty
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Re: What's going well?

Post by Nick Baty »

Calum Cille wrote:Because people are given the right not to sing, Nick. Such people then feel that their right to mumble the mass has been taken away from them.

In danger of a circular argument here. Of course people have the right not to sing. But as the Alleluia is always sung, singing it cannot be taking it away from the people. (I think that's what I mean!)
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contrabordun
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Re: What's going well?

Post by contrabordun »

I think it's that word "always". Seems to have a greater variety of meaning than you might think, just going by the dictionary.
Paul Hodgetts
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Nick Baty
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Re: What's going well?

Post by Nick Baty »

Apologies. I mean, whenever it is used it is sung.
MaryR
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Re: What's going well?

Post by MaryR »

Nick Baty wrote:But as the Alleluia is always sung, singing it cannot be taking it away from the people.

Oh, Nick. Do you really believe the Alleluia is always sung? I can think of several parishes I've visited where this doesn't happen. It's sad, but true that the hymn sandwich still exists, with everything between said. :(
Mary
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Nick Baty
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Re: What's going well?

Post by Nick Baty »

I corrected myself to "whenever it is used it is sung". I presume that when it's not sung it's... well, it's just not there.
MaryR
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Re: What's going well?

Post by MaryR »

Nick Baty wrote:I presume that when it's not sung it's... well, it's just not there.

Not so, I'm afraid. When it's not sung, it's just said!
Mary
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Nick Baty
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Re: What's going well?

Post by Nick Baty »

Well, I can't contradict the evidence of your own ears but that seems incredible! :?
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gwyn
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Re: What's going well?

Post by gwyn »

(I loathed 'One bread, one body' when I first heard it!)

What? Only then?
:lol:
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