SOP wrote:To me that indicates all are welcome and sure to find a place where they fit in, feel at home. I would say where "all are welcome" but it sounds like a Marty Haugen piece!
Don't try and use it in the diocese of Madison, Wisconsin, where the bishop says all are not welcome.
... the mirror image of the welcome laid on for traditionalists by the lay director of liturgy of a certain South Coast Diocese, Paul.
Yes, the director of liturgy for Portsmouth diocese is Paul Inwood, and his diocese claims to have a more generous provision of Extraordinary Form celebrations than many other English dioceses. But I'm not sure I understand what that has to do with my gentle joke riding on the back of SOP's one.
Gedackt flute wrote:I rather liked this tune & text in the new 'Gather'.
Would you care to tell us why you like the text GF? (I am bemused by the ICEL-style capitalisation in verse 4 that attempts to inject some theological credibility into what reads to me as a very fuzzy text - Wine, Bread - and am wondering if anyone in the pews who will sing this actually has outcasts knocking at their door.I do. Do you?)
Any opinions expressed are my own, not those of the Archdiocese of Birmingham Liturgy Commission, Church Music Committee. Website
The study of types. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typology_(theology) The liturgy is shot through with types and the Sunday lectionary relates the OT to the Gospel in this manner (prime example - the Easter Vigil). So the Proverbs text and texts such as the Passover story are types of the Eucharist.
I still think this text is fuzzy and if it's an attempt at typology in verse one, it's not obvious. Convince me! What's verse two about? A shot of catholic guilt that we've not helped out at the soup-kitchen this week or worked intensely to demolish the structure of sin that makes a soup-kitchen necessary? (Was it Vincent de Paul who said you cannot preach the Gospel to someone who has an empty stomach?) Or is it something to do with the Eucharist and its celebration - gathering in "the many" (See Benedict XVI Jesus vol 2)? Or is it trying to make a link with the Eucharist and living it (see prayers after communion in the Missal)? I think it's a vague fudge of a text - theologically confused and confusing. It might help, in my opinion, if the author had articulated that the banquet is not "ours" but "his".
Any opinions expressed are my own, not those of the Archdiocese of Birmingham Liturgy Commission, Church Music Committee. Website
Gedackt flute wrote:I rather liked this tune & text in the new 'Gather'.
Would you care to tell us why you like the text GF? ... (and am wondering if anyone in the pews who will sing this actually has outcasts knocking at their door.I do. Do you?)
Okay - here's one of the reasons why I liked the text.
I particularly like the line: 'Tasting the story and hearing it read', as it, in my view, links the recognition of the real presence of Christ in the story (Liturgy of the Word) with the real presence in the bread & wine. (The sealing of the covenent of the Word with the reception of the bread & wine).
The text also, in my view, emphasises the sense in which the Eucharist is a communal meal.
I think it is something people will sing.
(I suppose the equivalent of outcasts knocking at the door are Big Issue vendors)
Southern Comfort wrote:Yes, the director of liturgy for Portsmouth diocese is Paul Inwood, and his diocese claims to have a more generous provision of Extraordinary Form celebrations than many other English dioceses.
That's quite a good joke, too, Paul (in a dark sort of way). Whatever did come of the obstructions you tried to put in the way of Trads attempting to claim their rights under Summorum back in 2007 (the Child Protection thing was a sly touch)? Such a shame it came out into the open; but maybe that explains the libellous vehemence of your comments on this board against one of the Priests who commented on the matter.
With text by Adam M L Tice. Brief résumé of verbal content:
1 We see Jesus is real by gathering for story and feast. 2 We call absolutely everyone to the feast, who won't come? 3 We are all equal at the feast. 4 We are blessed by the Spirit and nourished by Jesus, the Wine and Bread.
I've heard this kind of text countless times. It's "we, we, we, we" all the way home. Thankfully, some of us do notice the capitalisation, which is not ICELic. Adam M L Tice is a Mennonite pastor, hence the capital letters on 'Wine" and "Bread" emphasising that the bread is only bread for him (eg, Christ is the True Vine, but not a vine tree).
Calum Cille wrote: It's "we, we, we, we" all the way home.
Yes - sigh. Avoid stepping in the puddles if you are following some distance behind.
Calum Cille wrote: Adam M L Tice is a Mennonite pastor, hence the capital letters on 'Wine" and "Bread" emphasising that the bread is only bread for him (eg, Christ is the True Vine, but not a vine tree).
Old Testament typology apart - and also leaving aside John 6 on Bread - I just cannot see anywhere that Jesus declares himself Wine. (True Vine, yes, but not Wine) In the Pauline corpus, most references to wine are in the context of exhortations to avoid drunkenness or addiction. In Revelation, they are connected with somewhat blood-curdling utterances of wrath. Where has this imagery of Jesus = Wine come from? The Reformation?
Last edited by Peter Jones on Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Any opinions expressed are my own, not those of the Archdiocese of Birmingham Liturgy Commission, Church Music Committee. Website
