Looking for good tunes & new texts

[NorthernTenor]

So if the music isn't there to express the text of the Gloria, what is its function? Ornament without meaning?
Shame about the sarcasm. a shame, but sadly, not a surprise.

I can understand EP’s reaction, Alan – he’s a sensitive soul, after all – but given the tenor of some of your own comments I’m surprised by your response to one that tries to make a serious point about the limited perspective of your argument, while avoiding that term for fear of giving offence.

The idea that a liturgical setting isn’t joyful if it isn’t heart-on-sleeve emotive and forceful, in the manner of so much music for the new mass, is a modern novelty. The fact that the Church got by perfectly well over the centuries without such an approach should tell us something. Further, I would suggest that an unremitting diet of such music drowns out the still, small voice that should lie at the heart of our prayer, and makes a god of our emotions.

[Peter Jones]

This type of music really does seem to be delivering the Gospel in a way that, in my view, the RC church is not doing.

Rather than such a generalisation, GF, it might help your readers if you were more specific. I am unsure as to the content of your complaint - which could even by read as if it's the Mass itself that is at fault.

The "official" texts of the Mass for singing are, on the whole, thoroughly scriptural and on the few occasions they are not, they are patristic in origin. You can't argue that in her official texts, the Church does not promote the singing of the Word of God. (If we ever get a new document from our Bishops about music, I'm sure you will find that hymn texts which are shot-through with scriptural content, and, of course, scriptural texts in themselves, will be highly recommended.)

What does "delivering the Gospel" mean? I "deliver the Gospel" at Mass every day - proclaim and preach. What is your expectation of the Entrance, Offertory and Communion chants/hymns? (Textually and in terms of musical style, please.)

This is also why the ritual context is important. How much of the CCM discussed so far is composed with RC ritual - and the purpose of the ritual - in mind? Any of it?

[Peter Jones]

Further, I would suggest that an unremitting diet of such music ............ risks making a god of our emotions.

Well said NT. One is reminded of Wesley's intention to promote warmth of heart through worship. I quote Eamon Duffy on Newman's conversion:

"He came to see Evangelicalism, with its emphasis on religious feeling and on the Reformation doctrine of justification by faith alone, as a Trojan horse for an undogmatic religious individualism that ignored the Church's role in the transmission of revealed truth, and that must lead inexorably to subjectivism and skepticism. source

This undogmatic religious individualism that sees little or no need for the Church is rife in so-called evangelical "churches" - and it's the stable from which much CCM emerges. So GF, in your search for goodness of texts and tunes, (goodness meaning "fit for purpose" in the celebration of Mass) could you expand a little more on this generalisation below and give your readers something more specific to ponder?

I also feel that some of the new texts of John Bell, Marty Haugen, and Bernadette Farrell are needed as they weave in ideas from Lumen Gentium, and expand on already existing scriptural and liturgical texts.

I don't particularly want to engage in analysis of any of the above-mentioned authors' texts in regard to their harmony and consistency with revealed truth in Scripture and Tradition but I might if pushed. The huge point that John Paul II made in Vicesimus quintus annus was that lex orandi should indeed be lex credendi.

[Peter Jones]

If readers do not know the basis of evangelical Christianity, read this.

[Peter Jones]

This type of music really does seem to be delivering the Gospel in a way that, in my view, the RC church is not doing.

I don't want to deliver the Gospel with what sounds to me like overtones of intense constipation and depression. Where's the joy in this music? (Not that this music might sound like that to others)

[Calum Cille]

It appears to me that the emphasis since Vatican II has been very much on 'good new tunes and texts that people will sing' at the expense of the proper.

Expedit ut coetus fidelium, quantum fieri potest, cantus «Proprii» participet, praesertim per faciliora responsa vel alios opportunos modulos.
It is desirable that the assembly of the faithful should participate in the songs of the Proper as much as possible, especially through simple responses and other suitable settings.

This type of music really does seem to be delivering the Gospel in a way that, in my view, the RC church is not doing.

Eh? What about these guys?
Matt Maher
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhaHB1Cad_4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9yrlYk-Bao
Audrey Assad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0B2ybZp ... ure=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afb4A8SppmQ
DOM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y79bnnBkq6s

And then there's lots of other people, often doing quite different stuff that really wouldn't attempt to pass itself off as liturgical music.
Fr Stan Fortuna
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px3w0m0ydSE (exception)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWH_6NY4a90
Cheer Up Charlie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hh5W7LN8z4
Katholicus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLIsfhm2n1s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60rrQv1E7FM
Ceili Rain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxkPZ9rDiug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDemNHMqNHs
Michael James Mette
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6XO7S1cHYM
Manuel3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xl41hGW7EQ
Padre Don José
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6x4pj2tHPg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXCJ_1ope7Y

It's not necessarily a bad thing not to do it the same way. If certain people who can't respond musically or textually to Matt Redman, how is that music delivering the Gospel to them? I think there's a difference between the full meal of a meaningful, prayed liturgy and the junk food of a God concert where we all coincidently applaud as the saxophonist moves into the middle 8 because actually we're getting more into the music than into God. Depending on feelings for the stimulation of prayer is not a state of affairs I would wish for myself.

One thing is clear to me: the specious argument, "my stuff helps me to pray, your stuff leaves me spiritually cold," is a barely disguised attempt to justify having your personal musical taste dominate the liturgy at the expense of someone else's. If having your kind of music at mass makes you more holy, then this approach, rather than having the purpose of the sanctification of the faithful, can only have the purpose of the sanctification of only some of the faithful (those who like that kind of music) in preference to others (those who don't like that kind of music), which is a manifest imbalance.

We find the same phenomenon dividing groups of people in the secular realm. At wedding receptions, twenty-year-olds will get up onto the dance floor for one song while fifty-year-olds will get up onto the dance floor for another song. Post-Vatican II practice has allowed the representation of societal discontinuities into the mass via modern music culture: often, people roughly of one type go to a mass filled with music that that type likes, while those roughly of another type go to the kind of mass that that type likes. Such an arrangement facilitates a degree of voluntary segregation based on sub-culture. Parishioners can find they can't actually sing together when all attend the same mass because they have different musical repertoires. The Orthodox face no such issue. Young and old, conservative or liberal, classical or rock, all attend the same mass with the same music.

It is always helpful to be aware of one's own biases and mindful of how the arguments for them can easily be confused with what is truly edifying - or unifying. My own experience is of going to mass and being spiritually enriched by the experience no matter what the quality of the singing or the musical style. This is not because I would have no complaints about the music but because I am called to go to mass to share worship of God, not to lord it over others nor to indulge in my kind of music, no matter how worthy any justifications for wanting it at mass.

[Gedackt flute]

This type of music really does seem to be delivering the Gospel in a way that, in my view, the RC church is not doing.

Rather than such a generalisation, GF, it might help your readers if you were more specific. I am unsure as to the content of your complaint - which could even by read as if it's the Mass itself that is at fault.

The "official" texts of the Mass for singing are, on the whole, thoroughly scriptural and on the few occasions they are not, they are patristic in origin. You can't argue that in her official texts, the Church does not promote the singing of the Word of God. (If we ever get a new document from our Bishops about music, I'm sure you will find that hymn texts which are shot-through with scriptural content, and, of course, scriptural texts in themselves, will be highly recommended.)

What does "delivering the Gospel" mean? I "deliver the Gospel" at Mass every day - proclaim and preach...


This is also why the ritual context is important. How much of the CCM discussed so far is composed with RC ritual - and the purpose of the ritual - in mind? Any of it?

Okay, I will try to be more specific.The independent churches have, in my view, 'opened up' the Gospel using ideas taken from popular culture - Rock/Pop/Soul, Jazz etc. with talented charismatic worship-leaders. This is merely an observation - not a complaint. (However, the mic. has been known to have been switched off in many RC churches - and so the Gospel is not heard.)

The Church,officially, promotes the singing of the Word of God in her documents. However, the reality is that some priests forbid the singing ot the psalms and acclamations, and only allow non-liturgical material to get through.

[Gedackt flute]

What is your expectation of the Entrance, Offertory and Communion chants/hymns? (Textually and in terms of musical style, please.)

This is also why the ritual context is important. How much of the CCM discussed so far is composed with RC ritual - and the purpose of the ritual - in mind? Any of it?

My expectation of the entrance song is that it should give people a chance to have a good sing together to a good tune at the beginning of Mass. In my parish we go for the nearest hymn/ditty equivalent to the antiphon in the missal or simple gradual - sometimes with the psalm verses sung by the choir.

My expectation of the offertory song is that it should help people to reflect on the readings and 'look forward' to the EP & reception of communion. (The popular perception of the offertory is rather different - and I am nearly always asked to accompany 'All that I am', 'In bread we bring you.')

My expectation of the communion chant is that it should be 'communitarion' - for example Fr. John Foley's 'One bread, one body. and/or psalm based with a repeated refrain for the congregation, while the choir sing the psalm verses. (Again, the popular perception of communion is rather different, and I have been yelled at for not putting on 'Sweet sacrament divine' and similar items.)

[Gedackt flute]

How much of the CCM discussed so far is composed with RC ritual - and the purpose of the ritual - in mind? Any of it?

I would imagine none or very little.

[VML]

I can see how the Gospel is informing these songs and singers, but I wonder how we can translate this into music suitabe for the liturgy.
Yes, they have a worthwhile message, but 'talented charismatic worship-leaders' is what they are, and somehow it seems to me that they are producing a performance rather than leading the assembly into singing, and giving them the confidence to sing, as a cantor should.

[musicus]

Context is important. In worship services (e.g. the familiar Spring Harvest type), these songs can serve as hymns, and everyone joins in with them. Outside of these services (arguably their natural home), they can come across as performance items, not to be sung along with. In this regard, they function like choral motets (albeit not stylistically), with the capacity to engender inner participation (or not, according to the disposition of the listeners). Some of these songs have become familiar to Catholics, and are used as 'hymns', but this is a very protracted process which can take as long as 10 to 20 years.

There is a limited amount of Catholic CCM around, which I have often encountered in schools. However, the teachers usually encounter a much more mixed response when they attempt to import these songs into the parish Sunday Mass, probably for the reasons I have given above. Any music that is of its nature best suited to small groups (e.g. much CCM and most motets) is also very much at home in the concert hall - which perhaps explains the unease of those who would shun any suggestion of 'performance' in the sacred liturgy or whose interpretation of 'active participation' is rather too literal.

[NorthernTenor]

How nice to see you able to comment, Musicus, rather than spending your valuable time separating us!

[NorthernTenor]

How much of the CCM discussed so far is composed with RC ritual - and the purpose of the ritual - in mind? Any of it?

I would imagine none or very little.

'nough said, John.