Looking for good tunes & new texts

Well it does to the people who post here... dispassionate and reasoned debate, with a good deal of humour thrown in for good measure.

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NorthernTenor
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Re: Looking for good tunes & new texts

Post by NorthernTenor »

Southern Comfort wrote:
Eastern Promise wrote:"composers don't trust the process nor the panel"


Ooh, that's a bit harsh on Martin Foster, Paul. I thought we were all on the same side....


My comment has nothing to do with Martin Foster, who is simply administering a scheme under rather trying circumstances. I hear nothing but compliments about the way in which he has dealt with composers and publishers.

What I was referring to was the scheme itself. We all know that there are composers and publishers who don't trust the process, nor the panel. NT has said so himself on many occasions, and I think Colin Mawby's views are pretty well known to readers of this forum; and of course there are others. We can all think of one publisher who said he would boycott it (the grapevine says that he has since relented, but who knows?).


I am bemused by SC’s comments. He is aware of allegations of Liturgy Office incompetence in its framing and administration of the permission-to-publish process. In my own case, this is backed up by analysis of a fundamental flaw in its terms of reference, and by reports of specific instances of problems in the process, arising from failures of organisation and communication. On the face of it, responsibility for this car-crash lies with the Department’s Acting Secretary and those responsible for managing him.

Now, SC may believe my analysis to be flawed and my reports to be either inaccurate or not the whole picture. If so, he should say so, with appropriate explanation, which I would be delighted to read. Without this, SC’s implication that it’s all the fault of someone other than a hard-working and able Acting Secretary leaves one scratching one’s head for a possible motivation. Does SC know something we don’t? Has he worked through his own problems with the process, and it’s now a matter of “I’m all right, Jack, b****r you”? Or is he still in the midst of them and hopes that public praise will oil the wheels?

While we’re on the subject, have any of you noticed the apparent changes in the Panel’s terms of reference since they were published? I believe that one of those changes relates specifically to a matter which I have appealed, on the grounds that the Panel has gone beyond its stated purpose. I fear the change was made after I raised my objection, in advance of the hearing of the appeal (whenever that might be). Now if that’s so, it will look suspiciously like an attempt to pre-empt and influence the appeal by quietly ‘clarifying’ the terms of reference in a way that lends support to the Panel’s interpretation. Such an action would be underhand and an abuse of position, so I asked Mr. Foster for a version history of the document, in case my memory was playing tricks with me (if it is I'll be as public in my apologies as I have been in my criticism). When he got over his evident confusion about what that meant, he promised me a copy of the document as authorised, so that I could compare it line by line with the current version (this was the very conversation in which he admitted to me that he’d waited until receiving an appeal before thinking about how it might be organised). Since then all has gone quiet. I have not received the promised material. In fact, not a word have I heard, either from Mr. Foster or his Episcopal management, either about the promised information or my own appeal, which seems to have disappeared into a black hole somewhere between SW1 and Leeds.

It’s all very rum.
Ian Williams
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Dom Perignon
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Re: Looking for good tunes & new texts

Post by Dom Perignon »

Reactions to, experiences of and discussion about the Panel process are really "off topic" as far as this thread is concerned. Please add to the appropriate thread(s) or start new ones for new aspects of the Panel process.
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Southern Comfort
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Re: Looking for good tunes & new texts

Post by Southern Comfort »

Peter Jones wrote:SC - what are the French guidelines for the Entrance Chant?


Here is French GIRM (no surprises here):

Le chant d´entrée (l’introït)

47. Lorsque le peuple est rassemblé, tandis que le prêtre entre avec le diacre et les ministres, on commence le chant d´entrée (introït). Le but de ce chant est d´ouvrir la célébration, de favoriser l´union des fidèles rassemblés, d´introduire leur esprit dans le mystère du temps liturgique ou de la fête, et d´accompagner la procession du prêtre et des ministres.

48. Il est exécuté alternativement par la chorale et le peuple ou, de la même manière, par le chantre et le peuple, ou bien entièrement par le peuple ou par la chorale seule.On peut utiliser ou bien l´antienne avec son psaume qui se trouvent soit dans le Graduale romanum soit dans le Graduale simplex; ou bien un autre chant accordé à l´action sacrée, au caractère du jour ou du temps, et dont le texte soit approuvé par la Conférence des évêques.

S’il n’y a pas de chant pour l´entrée, on fait réciter l´antienne que propose le Missel, soit par les fidèles, soit par certains d´entre eux, soit par un lecteur ou, autrement, par le prêtre lui-même, qui peut aussi l’adapter sous forme de monition d’ouverture.
Southern Comfort
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Re: Looking for good tunes & new texts

Post by Southern Comfort »

Dom Perignon wrote:Reactions to, experiences of and discussion about the Panel process are really "off topic" as far as this thread is concerned. Please add to the appropriate thread(s) or start new ones for new aspects of the Panel process.


Sorry, DP. My fault. I started it by answering Gedackt flute's question:
there is a need for good music in a variety of styles.

However - is there any out there?


by saying that there was quite a lot, but that it was not going through the Panel process. (The implication being that therefore people do not know that it is there.)
Peter Jones
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Re: Looking for good tunes & new texts

Post by Peter Jones »

HallamPhil wrote:Decani Music published Music & Mission, a compilation of the talks delivered at one of the early NNPMs. There you will find a fabulous article by Kathryn Hughes in which she makes the aforementioned point about 'Do this is memory of me'.


Phil - I have now dug out Decani's Music in the Mission of the Church - 1996 - but this is not the publication in which to find Hughes.
Maries, Bell and Joncas form the content. Where should I be looking? Thanks.
Any opinions expressed are my own, not those of the Archdiocese of Birmingham Liturgy Commission, Church Music Committee.
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Eastern Promise
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Re: Looking for good tunes & new texts

Post by Eastern Promise »

I was at a funeral this morning - non-Catholic - and the deceased was wheeled in and out to 'Somewhere Over The Rainbow' - and I thought "Fantastic!" Even we aren't as good as that. We can still learn a lot from our Protestant cousins. That's what Vat II was all about, after all....
HelenR
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Re: Looking for good tunes & new texts

Post by HelenR »

When planning my Dad's funeral, his parish priest told me of a request for "somewhere over the rainbow" by one family for their mother. He turned it down gently on the basis that if the wrong track was selected they could easily play "Ding Dong the Witch Is Dead" Now there s an idea for my funeral plan

Back to the main topic though - has anyone listened to Edwin Fawcett's last album Stronghold based on Grail psalm settings - the group I work with love Stronghold and Taste and see and sing it well. Not all of his music is good for mass but is proving useful for other liturgies and prayer services - which dont need panel approval yet.

Also if you are looking good modern CCM try Vicky Beeching who is very inspiring, also Matt Maher, Chris Tomlin and Josh Blakesly and Danielle Rose.

Would love to hear from others who is inspiring them at the moment Thanks for making this post
Peter Jones
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Re: Looking for good tunes & new texts

Post by Peter Jones »

HelenR wrote:Edwin Fawcett's last album Stronghold based on Grail psalm settings


example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO1Wk_K0qKc

HelenR wrote:Vicky Beeching


example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=dJk0oUT8SlQ

Matt Maher example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2KNvuscKRA

Chris Tomlin example - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c24En0r-lXg

Josh Blakesly - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_hIg8a9ExA

Danielle Rose - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3nvpgMCdJE&feature=related

Offered without prejudice.
Any opinions expressed are my own, not those of the Archdiocese of Birmingham Liturgy Commission, Church Music Committee.
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HallamPhil
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Re: Looking for good tunes & new texts

Post by HallamPhil »

Sorry Peter. If it was not in music & Mission then maybe it is in one of the Decani Extras 1998?
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musicus
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Re: Looking for good tunes & new texts

Post by musicus »

HelenR wrote:When planning my Dad's funeral, his parish priest told me of a request for "somewhere over the rainbow" by one family for their mother. He turned it down gently on the basis that if the wrong track was selected they could easily play "Ding Dong the Witch Is Dead"

:D
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Gedackt flute
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Re: Looking for good tunes & new texts

Post by Gedackt flute »

docmattc wrote:
There is awful, and good music across the whole spectrum from right wing to left wing, not that those labels are useful. Furthermore, two people will define awful, and good, music completely differently. The regretable thing is that many pieces are defined as awful, or good, not on the basis of the piece itself, but on the identiy of the composer and/or which side of centre he is perceived to be located.


Yes, this is true. However, in my role as parish music assistant, I am simply not interested in the identidy of the composer, or his or her liturgical preferences. I am simply looking for good music that the congregation will take to, sing, and use as prayer.

The 'panel' has little to do with this (not a criticism of the panel!) as the music may originate from, for example, the Iona community, or may be published in the US.
Gedackt flute
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Re: Looking for good tunes & new texts

Post by Gedackt flute »

HelenR wrote:
Back to the main topic though - has anyone listened to Edwin Fawcett's last album Stronghold based on Grail psalm settings - the group I work with love Stronghold and Taste and see and sing it well. Not all of his music is good for mass but is proving useful for other liturgies and prayer services - which dont need panel approval yet.

Also if you are looking good modern CCM try Vicky Beeching who is very inspiring, also Matt Maher, Chris Tomlin and Josh Blakesly and Danielle Rose.

Would love to hear from others who is inspiring them at the moment Thanks for making this post


I really loved the Edwin Fawcett pslam setting (see the Peter Jones link). This, in my view, is authentic British Gospel, and I think that some of his music might work in Mass.

The other artists are accomplished CCM musos, however, I'm sure their material is more intended to be listened to - or perfomed at a praise & worship service.

The beauty of the music of, for example, Bernadette Farrell, is that it is singable by congregations, and is suitable for very minimal, or full resources.

Again (please, this is not a rant!), I do not see what 'trad.' practices (banning communion wine, altar girls and the music of Marty Haugen) have to to with the Gospel.

I have looked in vain for any good tunes on their websites. If anyone knows of any - please let me know!
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VML
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Re: Looking for good tunes & new texts

Post by VML »

What is CCM please?
Gedackt flute
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Re: Looking for good tunes & new texts

Post by Gedackt flute »

Peter Jones wrote:I think I should also raise the point that Looking for good tunes & new texts omits any consideration of ritual function.


I honestly don't think so! The rites are musical, and so need good tunes. For example, Chris Walker's Alleluia from the New Belmont Mass is, in my view, a terrific tune. I think people will sing it, although I could be totally wrong about this.

The Gloria is a rite in itself, and as the text has been revised, I am looking for a good tune to sing it to - whether this is newly composed, or a different version of something that we already have, or something from tradition, for example Gloria XV.

I also feel that some of the new texts of John Bell, Marty Haugen, and Bernadette Farrell are needed as they weave in ideas from Lumen Gentium, and expand on already existing scriptural and liturgical texts.
Last edited by Gedackt flute on Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gedackt flute
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Re: Looking for good tunes & new texts

Post by Gedackt flute »

VML wrote:What is CCM please?


CCM is: Contemporary Christian Music

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempora ... tian_music
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