Looking for good tunes & new texts

[Peter Jones]

Doesn't Christ do that for us in the proclamation of the Word - and particularly the Gospel

And shouldn't our musical choices reflect that?

Can you find any legislative liturgy document that insists the hymns we sing must reflect the Gospel of the day? The only document I can recall, off the top of my head, that faintly hints at such a practice is Dies Domini of JP II (unlikely that he himself would have penned it). That document is only of the nature of a meditation on the important of the Lord's Day. It has no liturgical, legislative clout whatsoever.

[Nick Baty]

Therefore we can sing Bring flowers of the rarest on Sunday?

[Peter Jones]

The United States Bishops give the following guidelines in Sing to the Lord (2007) :

191. In selecting a Communion song suitable for the Eucharistic banquet in which God’s
blessings are bestowed so abundantly, one should look for texts that have themes of joy, wonder,
unity, gratitude, and praise. Following ancient Roman liturgical tradition, the Communion song
might reflect themes of the Gospel reading of the day. It is also appropriate to select a
Communion processional song that reflects the liturgical action, i.e., eating and drinking the
Body and Blood of Christ.

These Bishops make no suggestion (see no. 142) that the Entrance and Offertory songs should, of necessity, reflect the Gospel of the day.

Nick - you can answer your own question by reading the liturgy documents.

[Nick Baty]

These Bishops make no suggestion (see no. 142) that the Entrance and Offertory songs should, of necessity, reflect the Gospel of the day.

But if they don't, they might as well not be there!

[John Ainslie]

This thread is turning into a useful discussion on the role of the context (social, cultural, etc) of liturgical celebration in choosing texts where these can be freely (but judiciously) chosen. Here is my 'take', for what it's worth.

1) The Entrance Song is to celebrate our gathering together and to prepare us for the day, the season (if there is one) or simply to hear God's Word and eucharistize. It should NOT (IMHO) be a pre-digested summary of (any of) the readings: let us wait for God to speak to us in his own words in their proper place in the Liturgy of the Word.

2) The Methodist tradition is to spell out the message of the Gospel in a hymn sung after the Gospel or after the Sermon/Homily. This is not Catholic tradition. However, given that we remember the whole world and its needs (as well as those of the Church) at the Prayers of the Faithful, then the possibility exists of giving the Offertory Song the role of reflecting on the Liturgy of the Word (scripture, homily, prayers) before or as we move on to the Eucharist. Both GIRM and Celebrating the Mass encourage a broader scope for the Offertory Song than expressing the Preparation of the Gifts, even though it may accompany the procession of same.

3) The ancient tradition of using a quotation from the Gospel (or other reading) as a Communion antiphon is to be noted. But, if followed, this should be a quotation, not some well-meaning author's interpretation of it.

4) The hymn after Communion forms a near-conclusion to the Liturgy of the Eucharist, and is not an anticipated dismissal hymn.

5) Although it is quite correct to say that a Recessional Hymn is not a feature of the Roman rite, widespread usage is evident and long-established. Moreover, the significance of the dismissal as the command to 'go and do likewise' has been considerably strengthened by the new dismissal formulae, added (it is said) by command of Pope Benedict - 'Go and announce the Gospel of the Lord' is very powerful. The role of the Dismissal Hymn (as I shall call it) could well be to spell out the significance of these commands, which immediately precede it. Moreover, people are more likely to remember this hymn than the homily as they make their way home...

I have referred to texts. The role of the social and cultural context of liturgical celebration in choosing musical style is something rather different.

[alan29]

For my part I see hyms as a way of reflecting on the reading/action. Nowt wrong with that.
But I also see them as a part of the "inculturalisation" of the liturgy - not a popular idea at present, I know - plugging into our common heritage.
Musically they also give people something they can really sing out, own and praise with, a good antidote to the increasingly responsorial nature of much of our liturgical music.

[VML]

Musically they also give people something they can really sing out, own and praise with, a good antidote to the increasingly responsorial nature of much of our liturgical music.

Which is why this Sunday, as I wade in with the chant Mass, (because Farnworth have printed the tune),- so far we have sung Belmont,- we will sing Crimond for the psalm and go out to Sing of the Lord's goodness.

[Gedackt flute]

I have found nothing at all in the way of social justice texts.......

Two brief points, if I may, GF

1. Why do you want to find social justice texts?

2. What is your understanding of the use of hymns at Mass?

1. I am looking for these to 'break open' the social justice texts we already have in scripture to expand on, for example, Isaiah's request to: 'Share your food with the hungry, take the poor and homeless into your house ... ' - an example of this can be found in Paul Inwood's 'Gathering song: Advent'. This text is beautifully set to a gregorian melody in Paul Ford's simple gradual, but in my view the Inwood setting is more suitable for the congregation I have been invited to serve.

2. My understanding of the use of hymns at Mass is that they are optional. At the parish I serve in, we use hymns as substitutes for the entrance and offertory antiphons - using the nearest scriptural equivalent - often a metrical psalm. In my view this makes the text digestable.

I am aiming to find good tunes that people will sing in order to help them to remember and 'enter into' scripture.

The 'recessional' is embedded in local practice (I nearly incited a riot a while ago, when I suggested that we did not need this). Okay, not part of the Roman Rite, but people insist on it, even if they are long gone after the first verse!

[Gedackt flute]

I think I should also raise the point that Looking for good tunes & new texts omits any consideration of ritual function.

People like good tunes. If it not their song they will not sing it.

I don't really think that looking for good tunes and new texts gets in the way of considering ritual function. To be sure, the committee I report to are largely aware of the primacy of the liturgical texts and the psalms. My task is to look thru' the various published and unpublished Mass settings and find that elusive thing - something that the congregation will sing!

[Peter Jones]

2) The Methodist tradition is to spell out the message of the Gospel in a hymn sung after the Gospel or after the Sermon/Homily. This is not Catholic tradition....

Perhaps we should call to mind that the ancient practice of homiletics is something restored by the Council:

24. Sacred scripture is of the greatest importance in the celebration of the liturgy. For it is from scripture that lessons are read and explained in the homily, and psalms are sung; the prayers, collects, and liturgical songs are scriptural in their inspiration and their force, and it is from the scriptures that actions and signs derive their meaning. Thus to achieve the restoration, progress, and adaptation of the sacred liturgy, it is essential to promote that warm and living love for scripture to which the venerable tradition of both eastern and western rites gives testimony.

and the scope given to the homilist:

65. The Homily is part of the Liturgy and is strongly recommended,63 for it is
necessary for the nurturing of the Christian life. It should be an exposition of
some aspect of the readings from Sacred Scripture or of another text from the
Ordinary or from the Proper of the Mass of the day and should take into account
both the mystery being celebrated and the particular needs of the listeners.

167 The Homily is an integral part of the liturgy and a
necessary source of nourishment for the Christian life. In
the Homily, firmly based on the mysteries of salvation, the
mysteries of the faith and the guiding principles of
Christian living are expounded, most often from the
Scriptures proclaimed but also from the other texts and
rites of the liturgy.

If the Offertory Song, the Communion Song and even the Dismissal Song are somehow based on the Gospel, might we not lay ourselves open to the charge that we could be said to be trying to manipulate the Liturgy of the Eucharist into an extended homily? (Just shuddering at thought of a "theme Mass" whereby one particular aspect of the Liturgy of the Word is imposed on the entire celebration - as if the Mass was a school lesson with an attainment target of teaching - drilling in - one particular doctrinal point.)

For those who do feel the need to pore over liturgy planners and even insist that somehow, every song must harmonise with the Gospel "theme" (as summarised in italics in people's Sunday Missals and the Lectionary) - do you ever ask the homilist what he will be preaching about? The Word of the day - and the other liturgical texts - are poly-thematic, aren't they? Do you want hymns based on the Gospel - of which each pericope is poly-thematic (which aspect of the Gospel do you choose?) - or hymns based on the homily? What if the homily concentrates on some aspect of a Pauline reading, the Responsorial Psalm or even the Collect or text of the Eucharistic Prayer? How, then, do you choose what to sing?

There's nothing wrong with trying to find texts to sing that harmonise with the Word of the day - the Psallite project, for example, does just that. Yet I do think some church musicians can suffer a degree of self-imposed angst (and concomitantly tend towards making poor pastoral decisions for the people they serve) in always seeking to reflect the Gospel "theme" in the choice of hymns.

[Gedackt flute]

For my part I see hyms as a way of reflecting on the reading/action. Nowt wrong with that.
But I also see them as a part of the "inculturalisation" of the liturgy - not a popular idea at present, I know - plugging into our common heritage.
Musically they also give people something they can really sing out, own and praise with, a good antidote to the increasingly responsorial nature of much of our liturgical music.

I agree wholeheartedly with the above. I think that Lucien Deiss said that to sing ALL of the psalms / antiphons would actually devalue the most important psalm in the Mass - the resposorial psalm.

In terms of 'inculturalisation' I feel that our task (what an immense task!) is to somehow take the texts that we have been given - the liturgical texts and scripture, psalmody in particular - and to somehow allow people to 'enter into' these. On a previous thread, I have spoken about how this seems to have been successful in popular drama.

It seems to me that paraphrases and redactions have been successful in a way that 'the proper words' have not been. Mike Anderson's 'clap clap' Gloria is one of the few Glorias that is guaranteed to be sung. And people love Bert Richards' 'God's spirit is in my heart'.

[Peter Jones]

I am aiming to find good tunes that people will sing in order to help them to remember and 'enter into' scripture.

Well I cannot fault that - a laudable aspiration. The best texts are scriptural or based thereon.

As you mention Advent - and I don't have the Inwood/Ford settings to hand - let me ask a question about another Advent text to those who might be, as it were, lectionary-obsessive in their search for hymns. Take, for example, my own Song of Consolation (Veni Emmanuel p.146) and Peter McGrail's Lord Emmanuel, Come (Laudate 82). Both texts are grounded in Isaiah 40 - Second Sunday of Advent, Year B. They are somewhat lectionary-specific. Yet would you see any use for either of these songs at Mass on any other Sunday of the three-year cycle?

[Peter Jones]

And people love Bert Richards' 'God's spirit is in my heart'.

Which, because of its tessitura, is unsingable for so many people!

[Peter Jones]

Mike Anderson's 'clap clap' Gloria is one of the few Glorias that is guaranteed to be sung……

I'd be very grateful if someone who has a greater grasp of musical analysis and group psychology than myself to explain the phenomenon of this piece's popularity. Seriously, why is it so popular?
(Anyone remember LB's comment about a song in a similar style, a few decades ago now? .....a song by Sister M. Somethingorother - "I don't know what the M stands for but it's certainly not Mozart".)

[Gedackt flute]

I'd be very grateful if someone who has a greater grasp of musical analysis and group psychology than myself to explain the phenomenon of this piece's popularity. Seriously, why is it so popular?
(Anyone remember LB's comment about a song in a similar style, a few decades ago now? .....a song by Sister M. Somethingorother - "I don't know what the M stands for but it's certainly not Mozart".)

Regrettably, I have little grasp of musical analysis and group psychology - but here is my 5 cents.

I agree with JQ, who on a previous thread stated that 'Catholics like cheesy' - and this as cheesy as you are going to get. I personally rather like the 60's pop idiom it is written in - it is rather like Mike D'Abo's theme song to The Likely Lads. (Could we commission Mike D'Abo to write a Gloria?)

Its popularity may be down to the fact that people have taken ownership of it, often at an early age. I suspect that it is probably the ONLY sung Gloria that many English RC's have actually heard.

Surely it is streets ahead of these awful quasi-plainsong settings on right-wing 'Catholic' web sites.