What will you enter to on Sept 4th?

[quaeritor]

The Prefaces and Eucharistic Prayers come in at the same time as everything else, on 4 September. The collects, prayers over the gifts and after Communion, and the entrance and Communion antiphons are what is not coming in until Advent I.

I don't doubt that you'll be right about the detail, SC - but where could I/should I have seen it? - I think the best information available here about the new translation is as precise as "it's coming in in September"

Q

[Nick Baty]

As you say, probably no great copyright issue in pointing the text to fit the tone (although doubtless there'll be someone reading this who will cite all sort of legal problems – there usually is).

And what is the 2008 version - I have it in some rather old copies of HON dated 1977

The 2008 Gloria is a completely different piece – with a long "Glo-" sung over six or seven notes. Quite Christmassy in that it's a tad reminiscent of the refrain of "Angels we have heard..." I've only seen it published in the collection which was published for the 150th celebrations in 2008. You can buy it from the Lourdes online shop but my French wasn't up to it and I could have been signing up for anything. Persuaded a friend to bring a copy back a couple of years ago.

[Nick Baty]

I don't doubt that you'll be right about the detail, SC - but where could I/should I have seen it?

There’s some info from the BCEW here.

[alan29]

I remember playing "The arrival of the Queen of Sheba" at the entrance of a "flamboyant" bishop once, if that's any help.

[Nick Baty]

And I once played "This is the image of our Queen" as a rather rotund bishop entered the hall to open a rally of the UCM (Actually, that was at the Floral Pavilion which, I think, Alan29 might know!)

[alan29]

Slow variations on "Nice one Cyril" as Archbishop Cyril Cowderoy was conferring minor orders on a large gaggle of seminarians. Showing my age there.

[Southern Comfort]

Since the Lourdes Gloria has been mentioned, let us be clear that this setting is itself an egregious breach of copyright.

The late Mgr Francis Duffy wrote his Gloria setting, as published in Music for the Mass, Laudate and elsewhere, in 1972. It consists of a refrain (which more than a few congregations find too high in tessitura, but that's by the by) and a three-element tone for chanting the verses. The key is B flat.

When Jean-Paul Lécot wrote his Lourdes Gloria the best part of a decade later, he had already encountered Duffy's Gloria through Scottish pilgrims coming to Lourdes and singing it there. Lécot changed the key to D, produced a new refrain (which I think actually works better than Duffy's) in an identical rhythm to Duffy's, pinched the whole of Duffy's verse tone without permission or acknowledgement, and added a fourth element of his own in order to make it work in French. When the Lourdes verses were translated 'back' into English they had to be stretched out to fit the four-element tone.

Duffy never received any credit for the original idea, nor a penny for the use of the adaptation of his verse tone. He was much too nice a man to sue. Because the tone as used at Lourdes is a major third higher than the original, it can cause flatness among singers.

It's the same sort of copyright problem as with Fintan O'Carroll's Celtic Alleluia refrain, sung at Lourdes by Irish pilgrims and subsequently pinched by Lécot and Père Décha (remember him?). It has been reproduced at Lourdes ever since, senza some of the passing notes, alas.

[quaeritor]

OK, OK - so I got the date wrong. Thanks for some useful links and tips, but . . .
. . granted that Advent is a whole new year I'm still sure that some of you will be that far ahead of the game. Anyway, as Nick Baty said above

your description of the gathering song is as it always has been – at least, as long as I've known it.

(I thought that too, but was too pressed for time to try to research the previous rubrics - I thought perhaps that since the new GIRM has now been "new" for so long I might have been confusing advance readings of the new as being the "old") Can it be that I have just been unlucky over the last several years in that despite getting around quite a bit I have never encountered a parish that sang any form of a "chant" (please avoid the "chant" argument for the purpose of this thread) at the entrance? (pace Northern Tenor who did offer "Justus es Domine (Introit, Graduale Romanun, 23rd Sunday in Ordinary Time". - was that just a general suggestion NT or is that what you will really be singing? Can I move to your parish?)

Are you all
- (a) like me, in holiday mode and not prepped for Advent yet, or
- (b) unwilling to admit in public that it will be (as it has always been) "Hymn No nnn"?

Why so coy? Reveal all!

Q

[NorthernTenor]

That's really what we're singing, Q: 11 am in Canterbury before an entrance hymn & 6 pm in Faversham during the entrance procession. I can speak for Faversham & say that if you're there by 5pm for the rehearsal you'll be welcome to join us.

[JW]

I would have thought that this is not the time to switch from a hymn to a processional antiphon for entry - there are sufficient other changes on that day and everyone will need some time to get used to new words and musical settings. In any case, Rainham in Southwark has no plans to sing anything other than hymns for Gathering purposes, using the rich English repertoire. If anyone wants to sack me or delate me to Rome, they're welcome! I'm a little intrigued as a hymn by one of our members was generally considered to be the best way of kicking off the Triduum only a few months ago, so what has changed?

I have to admit I'm sorely tempted to use the Patrick Appleford (though I'm not sure if my tongue is in my cheek and we haven't sung it for a couple of years):

O Lord All the World Belongs To You
And You Are Always Making All Things New
What is Wrong You Forgive,
And the New Life You Give
Is What's Turning The World Upside Down!

[nazard]

...

O Lord All the World Belongs To You...

Is that true? I note in Genesis 12:7 God promises to give a land to the seed of Abraham. Did he never actually keep that promise?

[JW]

Nice one Nazard, but I wonder to what extent does it still remain His land if the people who occupy it are His chosen people? And although God has given the land, I can't help wondering whether he reserved to Himself the right to take it back from time to time, so ultimately who does all the world belong to?

Quote from Jeremiah 20 : 4 & %, NIV:
For this is what the LORD says: ‘ I will give all Judah into the hands of the king of Babylon, who will carry them away to Babylon or put them to the sword. 5 I will deliver all the wealth of this city into the hands of their enemies—all its products, all its valuables and all the treasures of the kings of Judah. They will take it away as plunder and carry it off to Babylon.

How long before we are condemned for being OT?

[musicus]

Not long at all!

[Southern Comfort]

How long before we are condemned for being OT?

You mean for being Old Testament?

[quaeritor]

Meanwhile, back at the topic . . .

Thanks to NT for being the only one to answer the question (and for the kind invitation to deepest Kent - by enormous coincidence a relation is in the process of moving to Faversham so if a duty visit comes up I will take the opportunity to pm you and look in if appropriate.)

Thanks also to JW for at least answering, albeit disappointingly - if now is not the time to change (assuming that you agree with the proposed change) it is hard to see when would be better. It is not just a few words we are changing, but the whole "image" of the celebration of the Mass, and what better way to make an impact than to really make something of the entrance procession - something with a bit of ritual about it, not the too common ungainly sprint to the sanctuary.

Came on, folks - do tell! Does anyone have a proper procession (other than NT, of course).

Q