Payment?

[SOP]

I do what I do because I love singing and music as part of our liturgical celebrations. If I feel I am beginning to be bothered by not receiving any pay for what I do then I tell myself to step back knowing full well that I will miss it before it misses me!! It is my choice to be as involved and I also have given up a day's pay in order to be part of a big celebration. It is part of my life as a committed Christian and I thank God I am able to do it.

There again, I am at a church that does have a paid Director of Music, or at least some payment. It certainly is not a full time wage and if ever the hourly rate was calculated I am sure it would be pence rather than pounds! I also know some people who try to make a living from it and will support them when I can by attending their workshops or music days - but only as long as they are not doing them to chase the money!

If I was paid, then I would become an employee and be at others' beck and call or at least feel as if I would. I also do as much for the church outside of the music aspect so should I get paid for helping with tea and coffee every now and then?

We are all different. Perhaps some need the confidence of receiving money.

[Merseysider]

Apologies – I have grumbled too much on this one – don't wish to appear a total grizzler.

I have probably been expressing myself badly – at heart I don't want to be paid – well, not by my present community anyway – love them too much.

My initial grumble was: take the parish which has a small amount of money and no organist – there are many PPs who will pay someone. But an MD, someone who can stitch the whole thing together, work with the assembly and develop a choir, train cantors (and organists), bring along brass players (having scored for them), produce choir music and service sheets... well, we (mostly) do this for zilch. And yet, this amount of work actually costs us a substantial part of our income.

I'm just wondering why there is this disparity.

If there was a paid MD's job around I wouldn't be able to apply for it as I'm not qualified. Yet, when I've been employed as an organist noone's ever asked.

Why are MD's not considered worth their salt yet organists worth their weight in gold.

I could sort this out by giving up my voluntary MD post in parish A and taking a paid job as an organist in parish B (which has no MD). Isn't this all a tad peculiar?

[Dot]

We are all different. Perhaps some need the confidence of receiving money.

Agreed, we're all different in that our circumstances are different. Sympathetic to the argument given by Merseysider about disparity between paid organist and unpaid MD. But even when we're paid, we often go beyond the call of duty in our work if it's something we really care about. I don't have to worry because I'm not the breadwinner, and Merseysider is, so his perception of this is bound to be different from mine.

This is my perception. There are all sorts of things I would like to take part in, such as the Big Sing in N Liverpool, the BBC One World Week thing with Bill Tamblyn, and I'm not going to because it would mean making strange arrangements for my family and leaning on people back home. I decided that my only extra activity this autumn would be to sing with the Deanery Choir, because it's local, but even that is clashing left right and centre with regular activities. So, we're all restricted in what we can do, some by financial constraints, some by family commitments, and we all have to decide for ourselves where the balance lies. If the weekly work load is getting too much for an MD, could they consider delegating some of it?

Returning to the quote at the top: not for me the confidence of receiving money. Being valued is about so much more than that....

Dot

[pews2]

The topic is probably important and illuminating beyond any individual's predicament. From the viewpoint of economic theory alone, priests are paid because without them there would be much less reason for attendance (and income). Organists might be next in line because they are perceived to encourage participation and hence continued attendance (and income). A similar case can be made for most contributors who encourage active participation and hence attendance (and income). There is no reason why other church musicians should not be among those who are so valued, but that depends on how they are perceived. The absence of such a musician would arguably diminish active participation, and eventually diminish attendance (and income). If such a musician withdrew in order to survive financially, the eventual drop in attendance would make a powerful case for paying the musician and repairing the damage.

Of course this purely economic theory breaks down in the case of very poor parishes with little or no income. However, it is remarkable that even in such parishes in the UK, the population of that area might not be exactly starving, and might include many baptised Catholics who rarely attend Mass. Many poor parishes around the world do have underfed Catholics, who attend Mass regularly and sing their hearts out. Musicians there do not think of payment, it would make little difference if they did.

The Pope's statement about the value of chant (I have only just become aware of it) reflects the innate advantages of simple modal melodies sung in unison: the kind of melodies that untutored mothers sing to their babies, or that an unaccompanied throng can sing whole-heartedly. Chant had no notation in its earliest days. Nor is it intrinsically tied to Latin. Simple modal melodies sung in unison have had a special place in every age and culture. I remain hopeful that with an increasing number of Cardinals from Africa, the value of rhythm in sacred music too will become increasingly recognized alongside melody. Polyphony can often reduce the power and prayerfulness of the best modal melodies, almost diluting the impact. More relevant here, polyphony often demands rehearsal and tends (with widely varying success) to reduce the people at Mass to spectators. Simple melodies and rhythm, by contrast, tend to encourage people to join in whether or not they believe they can sing.

Perhaps it is better for a throng to sing at Mass than for a few to sing instead merely because they can sing better.

[Merseysider]

Perhaps it is better for a throng to sing at Mass than for a few to sing instead merely because they can sing better.

Not "perhaps" but most definitely, 200 per cent.

As for the importance of organists I'm not so sure. They are much less important than a cantor. Most MD's can play when necessary – it doesn't always work the other way round.

[SOP]

[quote="Merseysider]
As for the importance of organists I'm not so sure. They are much less important than a cantor. Most MD's can play when necessary – it doesn't always work the other way round.[/quote]

Very true!

But there again I have been able to call on organists to cover for the regular one when on holiday and they have never asked for payment. I offered it to the last one earlier this summer but he did not want it. He was pleased to be able to help and has said I may call on him again in the future. That was for a Taize service and I appreciate that kind of support. Mind you, I am assisting him with a choir festival early next year so ...

[dunstan]

But there again I have been able to call on organists to cover for the regular one when on holiday and they have never asked for payment. I offered it to the last one earlier this summer but he did not want it. He was pleased to be able to help and has said I may call on him again in the future. That was for a Taize service and I appreciate that kind of support. Mind you, I am assisting him with a choir festival early next year so ...

Very true, I'll happily help out our local CofE, but then they kindly let me play/practice on their 1869 Walker. The bank of goodwill is alive and well. But then, I'm a "just about get by" standard organist in a tiny parish with a unison choir of seven, spending a couple of hours a week at it (outside Sunday Mass).

Merseysider, OTOH, is clearly resting in the no-mans-land between us have-a-go types and the catherdal based director of music. It is important that we have this continuum, and he is clearly working in an unsatisfactory part of it - he appears to be an overworked volunteer. How we address this is hard to see.

[sidvicius]

think that's down to the individual isn't it? As a volunteer, you give what you reasonably can. But Merseysider is doing much more than that, and that isn't going to do his health any good in the long run (n.b. wasn't there a couple of recent articles about musicians and stress in M&L recently?) in which case, eventually he won't be fit to work at all, for anyone - worst case scenario.

at heart I don't want to be paid – well, not by my present community anyway

Some office higher up then? The Diocese? Office of the ArchBish? But then, how will he be able to afford (insert your personal gripe here).

... no organist – there are many PPs who will pay someone. But an MD, ...we (mostly) do this for zilch.

-But clearly not all, and for varying fees, not nationally set, but negotiated locally.

... I'm not qualified.

-but with vast experience, which should count for something. Got references?

Why are MD's not considered worth their salt yet organists worth their weight in gold?

Not entirely happy with that notion, but it does hark back to my comment about the organists job being outwardly straightforward. Perhaps we need a few job descriptions from our resident organists and musical directors? What do you do, and how long do it take? Submitted privately to SSG management for comparative analysis, I think it could amount to some interesting, useful research.

...giving up my voluntary MD post ... taking a paid job as an organist ... a tad peculiar?

I agree, M., it does appear to be a bit wonky! Is this unfair? Discrimination?

OK, SSG brains, have we identified a bigger problem here that needs to be addressed? In the absence of an MP, who do we talk to, to get the rules changed? It actually sounds like a pay dispute.

[sidvicius]

Still no response - oh well. Kevin Flanagan in this month's Catholic Life magazine seems to agree - though he is talking of voluntary social, not pastoral care - I guess our discussion is roughly (but not completely) aimed at the latter.

[musicus]

Submitted privately to SSG management for comparative analysis, I think it could amount to some interesting, useful research.

and...

OK, SSG brains, have we identified a bigger problem here that needs to be addressed?

and...

Still no response - oh well.

The SSG trustees are all unpaid volunteers with all the usual time-consuming things like homes, families and jobs to keep them busy. The Society has no employees or swanky offices in London, etc. The SSG's best resource is its members, some of whom do have research interests. Why not write a letter to Music and Liturgy? It certainly is a worthy topic for exploration. Maybe the editors of M&L could commission someone to write on the subject.

M

[presbyter]

I reproduce this article from the Winter 2004 edition of “New Liturgy” - the Bulletin of the National Secretariat of the Irish Episcopal Commission for Liturgy. In the hope that the Commission doesn’t object to me posting its copyright material here, I offer an advertisement for this very useful publication :

Subscription rate £7.00

Editor: Patrick Jones
National Centre for Liturgy
St Patrick’s College
Maynooth
Co Kildare
Republic of Ireland

e-mail liturgy@may.ie

web: http://www.liturgy-ireland.ie

Guidelines for Payment of Parish Church Musicians

These guidelines have been prepared by the Advisory Committee on Church Music and were presented to the Bishops Conference of Ireland in December 2002. They were published in New Liturgy, spring 2003. These rates are updated annually. The 2005 recommendations are jointly published by the Advisory Committee oh Church Music and the Church Music Committee of the Church of Ireland Dioceses of Dublin and Glendalough.


In preparing these guidelines, remuneration guidelines issued by the RSCM and the ISM in England were examined. The Dublin Diocesan Church Music Committee of the Church of Ireland was particularly helpful helpful in drawing up these guidelines, as the committee has considerable experience of the matter, issuing guidelines annually since 1996.

The following should be regarded as guidelines and advice, not directives. The qualifications and ability of the musician, his/her expectations, the ability of the choir, the quality of the church organ, are among the matters which must be borne in mind when applying the guidelines to the local situation.

The recommended minimum remuneration levels relate to amateur musicians. ‘Amateur’ indicates musicians who may be professionally qualified and who earn their living principally outside the world of music. Higher rates would be appropriate for musicians who earn their living principally by performing and/or teaching music.

It is recommended that the church musicians should be engaged as an independent contractor on a ”for service” basis. However, if the musician is engaged in a contract for service, the parish should note its legal responsibilities in relation to taxation, social welfare insurance, employer’s liability insurance and health and safety.

It is appreciated that in some cases a local agreement exists whereby the church musician either accepts no payment or donates it back. While of enormous benefit to the parish, this generosity on the part of the musician distorts the cost of running the parish. It is recommended that in such cases the parish should pay the appropriate level of fee into a separate fund as, when the present musician leaves, it is probable that the successor will have to be paid. This procedure will establish a realistic payment level for the post and will avoid a sudden, sizeable additional cost in the future.

The value of regular in-service training cannot be overemphasised, especially in times of changing liturgies and the wide variety of styles of music now used in our churches. We suggest that clergy should be pro-active in drawing the attention of their musicians to opportunities for professional development. The annual Summer School of the Irish Church Music Association is an obvious course to consider and the Advisory Committee will be happy to recommend other appropriate courses to those seeking advice.

It is hoped that pastors will find these guidelines useful in determining an appropriate level of payment. The Advisory Committee emphasises that it is essential that the value of music in the worship of the Church and the musician’s training, skill and commitment are appropriately recognised in monetary terms.


Recommended minimum fees - 2005

Normal weekly duties Fee for 48 Sundays Euros and Sterling conversion

One Mass - no choir € 2,572 - £1,775
One Mass, choir with a Sunday rehearsal € 3,429* - £2,366
One Mass, choir, weekday rehearsal € 4,288* - £2,960
Two Masses/Services no choir € 4,288* - £2,960
Two Masses/Services, choir, Sun rehearsal € 5,530* - £3,819
Two Masses/Services, choir, weekday rehearsal € 6,688* - £4,616

The amounts are the minimum recommended fees for trained and competent church musicians. Factors such as level of qualifications, length of service, responsibility for a junior choir and the amount of administrative work should also be taken into consideration.

* These fees are ones recommended for a combined organist/choir director position. When the positions are shared between two people as a choir director and organist, each should receive 75% of the recommended fee with the implication that the total cost to the parish will be 50% higher than the rates above.

Weddings and funerals

It is normal practice to pay the church’s appointed organist the appropriate fee when the marriage couple/family of the deceased wish to engage an organist of their own choice. The implementation of this principle requires flexibility, so as to avoid misunderstanding and unfair criticism of musicians. It is recommended that each church should have a worked out policy in this matter, agreed in advance between clergy and musicians.

Weddings: The minimum suggested fee is € 150 (£ 100) . A higher fee is appropriate should the music be required to attend a rehearsal and/or when music has to be purchased or learned.

Funerals: The minimum suggested fee is € 85 (£ 60) for one service plus travel at 40c (30p) a mile.

Other recommendations

Fees should be reviewed annually by reference to pay inflation and national pay agreements.

Church musicians should be entitled to at least four Sundays off each year. The parish should pay the deputy for those Sundays and the responsibility for finding a deputy should primarily be that of the musician.

Musicians should be allowed two Sundays sick leave in any one year, for which period the parish will meet the cost of a deputy.

The minimum rate for deputy work is € 57 (£ 40) for the first service and € 40 (£ 27) for each subsequent service.

A written contract should be entered into, outlining the terms and conditions of service and listing the duties, including festivals other than Sundays, for which the musician is required.

Additional payment should be made for duties over and above those set out in the contract.

Church authorities should reimburse expenses incurred by church musicians - such as choir music, postage and stationery - within an agreed budget.

Church authorities should encourage and expect musicians to attend appropriate courses - in music, liturgy, theology etc... ) in Ireland and elsewhere at least once every three years and should contribute towards the cost, recognising the benefit accruing to both the parish and the musician from continuous professional development.


***********************************

There! Posted for your information but I’m looking forward to reading any comments

[presbyter]

Two Masses/Services, choir, weekday rehearsal € 6,688* - £4,616

Oh - and by the way - a priest in my diocese is entitled to an annual personal income of £5000 (made up from a parish salary of £1200, stipends and stole fees and Christmas and Easter offerings) Out of this, he has to put aside funds to buy/maintain his car (the 40 pence a mile business mileage he is also entitled to does not cover the entire cost of having to have a car but it does pay for the petrol) and he also has to pay income tax on benefits in kind (i.e. his accommodation in the presbytery)

[gwyn]

As a one Sunday Mass organist and choir director with a weekday rehearsal it's intesting to see the monetery equivalent to that which I (and many like me) offer out of love for our Lord and his Church.

Thanks for the posting.

[contrabordun]

‘Amateur’ indicates musicians who may be professionally qualified and who earn their living principally outside the world of music. Higher rates would be appropriate for musicians who earn their living principally by performing and/or teaching music.

This, very common, approach is actually slightly illogical. Why should the financial reward offered for 5 hours work per week be affected by the person's activities in the other 163?

and/or when music has to be ... learned.

Depends on the music. Seems unfair to expect the first bride that wants you to play Widor to buy you the music and pay you to learn it. One church I know puts this and the "you pay the local organist even if somebody else actually plays" clause together, with a repertoire list. If what you want is on the list, you have to use (or pay) the incumbent organist. If you want something else, and the incumbent is happy to learn it, you get it at no extra charge, otherwise you can engage somebody else and the incumbent loses the fee.

A written contract should be entered into, outlining the terms and conditions of service and listing the duties, including festivals other than Sundays, for which the musician is required.

I think something like this, perhaps called Memorandum of Understanding, and including responsibilities for repertoire selection / development would be worth having whether or not the musician/s is/are paid. It's what I had in mind as a way of addressing the problems Crumhorn was talking about, and I still think a 'standard' version endorsed by the Hierarchy would be worth having.

[Merseysider]

Having started this thread, I feel a need to confess. I've just sold out. Not entirely through choice.

My savings have gone and I was beginning to accumulate debt. My (day job) employers offered me full-time time work, a promotion, good salary, car, benefits etc. I asked for a four-day week (because of the parish music) and this was deemed impractical. I accepted the 30 pieces of silver.

I have had to explain to my parish priest that I can no longer do as much as I used to. Future projects have been put on the back-burner. From now on it's one choir practice, two sung masses a week and sung evening prayer once a month. The worst bit is that I won't be able to involve the schools as much. (The PP, I should hasten to add, backed my decision.)

The horrid fact of life is that I have to earn a living.

The sadness is that our plans have had to be cut to fit our cloth.