breaking of bread

organist · Post by **organist** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:27 am

A priest from Africa who is currently serving locally breaks the bread during the consecration prayer. I gently queried this with him and he said that he was carrying out the actions of Christ to fit with the words of institution. I have seen this done in some Anglican churches but never before in the Catholic rite. GI 56 is clear but does not say that the fraction should not occur at the words in institution. Please advise of the relevant rubric. I can understand where this priest is coming from and maybe they do this in Africa? Does Rome know I wonder?

Canonico · Post by **Canonico** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 4:40 pm

organist wrote:Please advise of the relevant rubric. I can understand where this priest is coming from and maybe they do this in Africa? Does Rome know I wonder?

The latest statement on this is to be found in the document, Redemptionis Sacramentum published by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments on 25th March, 24004, having been approved by Pope John Paul II on 19th March, 2004. The Pope ordered it to be published and to be observed immediately by all concerned.
It reads in paragraph 55:
"In some places there has existed an abuse by which the Priest breaks the host at the time of the consecration in the Holy Mass. This abuse is contrary to the tradition of the Church. It is reprobated and is to be corrected with haste."
There is another statement about the breaking of the Eucharistic Bread in paragraph 73 saying that it should be done while the Agnus Dei is being said or sung.
I think this should clarify the matter for you as well as for the priest concerned.

You should find the document on line in English at this link to the Vatican website, or it is published by CTS.

organist · Post by **organist** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:15 pm

Thank you Canonico - now just have to find a tactful way of pointing the said priest in the right direction.

presbyter · Post by **presbyter** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:30 pm

organist wrote:breaks the bread during the consecration prayer

But, I suggest, just being made aware of a rubric will not necessarily help this celebrant understand why what he's doing is wrong :cry:

How about "The Missal of Pius V introduced an abuse into the Liturgy by separating the fraction and the singing of the Agnus Dei - Discuss."

Merseysider · Post by **Merseysider** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:24 pm

Is there a musical Agnus in the world which is short enough to accompany the fractio â€“ when I go to Mass during week and we say "Lamb of God" it seems to accompany the breaking of bread perfectly. A verse-and-a-half of Inwood's Comm Song 3 seems to be too much. (I am prepared to be shot down.)

presbyter · Post by **presbyter** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:21 am

Merseysider wrote:when I go to Mass during week and we say "Lamb of God" it seems to accompany the breaking of bread perfectly

..... and is Holy Communion distributed mainly from what is reserved in the Tabernacle?

Merseysider · Post by **Merseysider** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:39 am

Only if there are more people than anticipated.

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:52 am

Merseysider wrote:Is there a musical Agnus in the world which is short enough to accompany the fractio â€“ when I go to Mass during week and we say "Lamb of God" it seems to accompany the breaking of bread perfectly. A verse-and-a-half of Inwood's Comm Song 3 seems to be too much. (I am prepared to be shot down.)

Look no further than Plainsong - How about Mass XVIII?

presbyter · Post by **presbyter** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:09 pm

Paul Inwood's Communion Song III ???? You don't mean that Liturgiam Authenticam hasw not yet been "received" surely!

Benevenio · Post by **Benevenio** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:42 pm

Merseysider wrote:Is there a musical Agnus in the world which is short enough to accompany the fractio?

Apart from the chant ones, you could also look at Baptised With Fire tracks 22-25.
Of the four settings there, the first is too long; the second has some wonderful harmonies; third and fourth are both short and sweet.

presbyter · Post by **presbyter** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:28 pm

Benevenio wrote:Baptised With Fire tracks 22-25.

Doesn't look as if LA has been "received" by some of these either - does that matter? (I just raise the question)

Benevenio · Post by **Benevenio** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:51 pm

presbyter wrote:Doesn't look as if LA has been "received" by some of these either...

That's a little unfair, presbyter, considering that BWF was published well before LA... whether or not you choose to use them now is a different debate.

Merseysider · Post by **Merseysider** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:53 pm

If it wasn't so worried about publicly asking a stupid question (like, "What's your name Mr Brown?) I would ask to be informed about Liturgiam Authenticam â€“ Presbyter suggests we all know it as well as Brideshead Revisited and Trainspotting.

Instead, I went and read Liturgiam Authenticam â€“ and I'm still not sure which bit P's referring to.

Yes, I'm thick â€“ but there are a lot of we less-well-educated folk out there doing our best.

So, please, full us in...

mcb · Post by **mcb** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:28 pm

Yes, please do, Presbyter. I've read LA and I don't know which bit of it you're hinting at.

M.

musicus · Post by **musicus** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:52 pm

I think the reference is to paraphrasing of texts, as mentioned in paragraph 60 of LA (and elsewhere):

Whether it be a question of the texts of Sacred Scripture or of those taken from the Liturgy and already duly confirmed, paraphrases are not to be substituted with the intention of making them more easily set to music, nor may hymns considered generically equivalent be employed in their place.

M

Society of Saint Gregory