Meatless Fridays

[presbyter]

Mind you - Friday evening choir practice could be a penance in itself if you have a large-mouth bass in attendance.

[Southern Comfort]

Whale Oil be jiggered!

*beep*! Whale is a mammal not a fish!

Must be Salmon Chanted Evening, then.

[docmattc]

Must be Salmon Chanted Evening, then.

Using Sole-esmes chant, obviously. The Dean Martin version might work though (That's a Moray)

Whale is a mammal not a fish

So is the capybara biologically, but in the eyes of the Church its a fish.

This thread is not not only off topic, but I think its lost all sense of porpoise.

[presbyter]

Whale Oil be jiggered!

Sing: "Whale meat again, don't know where, don't know when……" but not on Fridays SC.

[Calum Cille]

A bit off-topic but I couldn't help but recall the immortal line ... Blessed art thou, a monk swimmin'. Even further off-topic ... should that be a capital B?

[Nick Baty]

a monk swimmin'.

Presume that's a monkfish!

[JW]

Seriously though,

I think we need educating about:

1) The difference between fasting and abstinence.

2) Minimum and maximum ages where the fasting rule applies:
Canon 1252 says :
minimum = those who have attained their majority - is this therefore 18 for the English, rather than 21, or does Canon Law define majority?
maximum = the beginning of their sixtieth year - so this would be after 59th birthday, not 60th as we all seem to assume.

3) Minimum and maximum ages where the abstinence rule applies:
Canon 1252 says:
minimum = those who have completed their fourteenth year - so this would be after 14th birthday
maximum = no maximum given, so Presbyter and I can happily enjoy our fish on Friday.

Of course, if abstaining from meat on Friday isn't really a penance (which is partly why the rule was abolished in the first place), perhaps we should think about doing/giving up something else (which is what was supposed to be happening but probably wasn't for most people).

Any comments anyone?

[keitha]

A person who "has completed the eighteenth year of age has attained majority" - see canon 97. I agree that the obligation to fast ceases at 59.

[presbyter]

Now just wondering when the discipline of Friday abstinence originated. I must look this up for surely, "the poor" didn't eat that much meat anyway?

Friday

From the dawn of Christianity, Friday has been signalized as an abstinence day, in order to do homage to the memory of Christ suffering and dying on that day of the week. The "Teaching of the Apostles" (viii), Clement of Alexandria (Stromata VI.75), and Tertullian (On Fasting 14) make explicit mention of this practice. Pope Nicholas I (858-867) declares that abstinence from flesh meat is enjoined on Fridays. There is every reason to conjecture that Innocent III (1198-1216) had the existence of this law in mind when he said that this obligation is suppressed as often as Christmas Day falls on Friday (De observ. jejunii, ult. cap. Ap. Layman, Theologia Moralis, I, iv, tract. viii, ii). Moreover, the way in which the custom of abstaining on Saturday originated in the Roman Church is a striking evidence of the early institution of Friday as an abstinence day.

[FrGareth]

The current norms http://www.liturgyoffice.org.uk/Resources/Penance/Abstinence.pdf for the Church in Wales & England state "Those over eighteen are bound by the law of fasting until the beginning of their sixtieth year, while all over fourteen are bound by the law of abstinence." Therefore having a bus pass is not a license to eat meat on Fridays!

[oopsorganist]

In this age of over fishing and ocean pollution and distress.......nasty factory farming of fish...

it's gonna have to be eggs, or cheese. Or veggies. Eating fish is a luxury not an abstinence.

But then the factory farming of eggs is not good either. That leaves cheese. But it's bad for you. Apparently. But cheese curry is very nice.

I am looking forward to being able to fill out dietary requirements with something instead of nothing. I shall put "No meat on Fridays", better still, give me just a little of something I don't like. Catholic don't you know!

Anyway does that mean I have to eat meat all the other days of the week? Because I don't. Can a swop a Tuesday (beans on toast) for a virtual Friday. Like Tuesday is really Friday for me. Does that count. Being too busy and working too hard other nights to get a good gob full of food could be swopped for Friday.

If I forego my takeaway on Friday nights I will be wasted away.

Friday swopping. It could become a new Indulgence. In the old sense of the word.

Methinks the rule book was made by folks that get a good dinner on the table every night of the week. Sigh.

[oopsorganist]

But then again
in this unequal world that is today
what about the people who are starving
who have no control over fasting and abstinence because that is their life
is the return to fasting and abstinence just for the West, for settled peoples?
It's a bit too complicated for me to understand.

[FrGareth]

If I forego my takeaway on Friday nights I will be wasted away.

Oops, the best penance is a penance we notice. Much better than one we can simply select as a low-impact lifestyle option.

There is always mushroom risotto...

[oopsorganist]

But

you might notice a low impact life style option more than say, mushroom rissotto on Friday.

Always buying locally grown produce for example, is daily noticeable and has an immediate impact on the global ecology - buying Fair Trade hopefully has an impact.

I feel the loss of Nescafe coffee every minute of every day!

[VML]

Now a Nescafeless Friday...That really would be a penance!