The New Texts: Formation (discussion)

[mcb]

(Does playing a CD count as singing? )

[Nick Baty]

I've never ever ever in my whole life come across a parish where they sing at a weekday mass

That was part of the deal when I was given the job: make sure there are enough simple settings for the assembly to sing unaccompanied at weekday Mass. You can't exactly say Holy and Amen but, unlike Alleluia, they can't be omitted.

[mcb]

That was part of the deal when I was given the job: make sure there are enough simple settings for the assembly to sing unaccompanied at weekday Mass. You can't exactly say Holy and Amen but, unlike Alleluia, they can't be omitted.

Excellent. There should be more like you and your PP around.

[VML]

That was part of the deal when I was given the job: make sure there are enough simple settings for the assembly to sing unaccompanied at weekday Mass. You can't exactly say Holy and Amen but, unlike Alleluia, they can't be omitted.

Excellent. There should be more like you and your PP around.

Wouldn't it be loverly...!

[auchincruive]

Don't keep us in suspense as to which diocese and which Mass setting.

Don't know which setting is being proposed(imposed?). I wouldn't mind too much if it were the St Anne's Mass but I've a feeling it's probably an American version since the St Anne's Mass isn't published yet.
Don't want to name the diocese.
I've emailed to try and clarify whether 'THE new musical setting of the Mass the Diocese has decided to use in all parishes for the next year or two" is an exclusive 'THE' but have had no reply as yet.
I also envy Nick Baty livng in a parish/diocese where daily mass is sung and where priests are willing to sing.

[auchincruive]

Well auchincruive, if you're in Glasgow, Paisley or Galloway diocese, I think you might be getting James MacMillan - whose St Anne Mass now contains a Gloria. No idea if James has re-written his Galloway Mass though.

Not sure Glasgow will go with the St Anne's Mass. I see Fr Gerry Fitzpatrick and Noel Donnelly have started composing for the new translation
http://stmungomusic.org.uk/new-missal/c ... ssal-2011/

[presbyter]

Fr Gerry Fitzpatrick and Noel Donnelly have started composing for the new translation
http://stmungomusic.org.uk/new-missal/c ... ssal-2011/

Tell them to take out the exclamations marks, lest "withheld editorial" is received. (Voice of experience here - sigh)

[Nick Baty]

I also envy Nick Baty livng in a parish/diocese where daily mass is sung and where priests are willing to sing.

Have had a couple of PMs saying the same thing.
But I don't think we're doing anything unusual.
Sometimes texts demand to be sung – even without the various exhortation from Rome or from our national hierarchy.
And I haven't read anything which says "the Holy should only be sung on a Sunday".
As I understand it, Alleluia, Holy and Amen are sung at every Mass.

[Peter]

Tell them to take out the exclamation marks, lest "withheld editorial" is received.

... not to mention the "h"s at the end of "Hosannah".

[Eastern Promise]

Where do the Jocks seek permission for the new settings? It can't be from the Liturgy office in London as they have their own jurisdiction up there?

[Calum Cille]

Where do the Jocks seek permission for the new settings? It can't be from the Liturgy office in London as they have their own jurisdiction up there?

One might ask the same about the Frogs, Dagos and Krauts, none of whom seem to be as burdened as the Good Asses at the moment.

[Nick Baty]

Speaking as semi-Dago, semi-Jock, might we lose the name-calling.
I was censured for using a perfectly acceptable Anglo-Saxon word on here. (Still, b****red if I know why.)
But the above postings are far from appropriate.

[Eastern Promise]

"Jocks" is an affectionate term! No but seriously, I see on this St Mungo website that there is a subtle discouragement against using the Missal chants, the implication being that the adaptation from the Latin isn't good and the words and music don't connect etc. That's what we should be doing here! Then the site goes on to suggest some new settings by those connected with the site. Entrepreneurs, obviously. Respect.

We should similarly stop beating about the bush and start promoting some our great English Catholic composers. The Scots have no scruples, and good for them. I hear great things about the liturgy up there.

[Calum Cille]

The Scots have no scruples, and good for them. I hear great things about the liturgy up there.

Well, you won't be hearing them from James MacMillan, as far as I'm aware. Eastern Promise is referring to the following page.

http://stmungomusic.org.uk/new-missal/c ... ssal-2011/

The Liturgy Commission of the Archdiocese of St Andrews and Edinburgh held a singing day on the 9th of April and they got eighteen replies to their questionnaire (posted out to people on a mailing list) about the nine portions of new material used on the singing day. The following is the published summary of the feedback relating to James MacMillan's Newman mass and the ICEL Gregorian chant vernacular sets.

James MacMillan’s Newman Mass was generally liked (‘beautiful’), but three people felt they couldn’t teach it because of the amount of practising needed; one had already tried and failed. Another person thought their parish might learn it for a special occasion, while two more thought that it might become well known because of the Bellahouston association, like its 1982 predecessor.

The outright loser was the ICEL chant, which was led by Patricia Carroll on the day. Six people said they didn’t like it and/or it would be difficult to teach. Two of the six, perhaps presciently, thought we might have to learn it, so would be prepared to give it a go. Another person hadn’t previously considered it at all, but would do so now. In general, though, comments were negative – ‘cold’, ‘bare’, ‘rhythmically ambiguous’, ‘too difficult for general use’, ‘I would not attempt to teach it’.
[Forth in Praise comment from Evelyn, whose colleagues may not agree with her(!): it isn’t that bad, really. The rather strange notation puts people off, and it does need accompanying strongly during the learning phase.].

http://www.forthinpraise.co.uk/mag_file ... alysis.pdf

Behold, the archdiocese of St Andrews and Edinburgh hath spoken.

[Eastern Promise]

Some people can "teach" chant in a way that can put people off for life. Patricia Carroll is obviously one of these geniuses. She is my hero! This is how the revolution will succeed.