Better and Worse Aspects of the Reform

[Peter]

There's a guy in our parish who, when it's his turn in open bidding prayers, invariably begins "Dear Lord, as you no doubt read in the Guardian this week..."

Not the NoW then?

He obviously isn't aware of the principle that that Bidding Prayers are intentions for congregational prayer, not requests made directly to God.

BTW, this is a principle that I understand to be the case but cannot find it stated in the GIRM. Is it formally stated anywhere and, if so, where?

However, criticising the concept of Bidding Prayers or their presence in the Mass because of abuses like this (or children praying for their hamsters) is like arguing that the concept of Mass in English is in itself a Bad Thing because it spawned the Clapping Gloria and Israeli Sanctus. In my church we have the set intentions under the four headings in the GIRM followed by a pause in which intentions are read out from a book where parishioners have written their own concerns (readers are instructed to paraphrase as necessary to ensure that they are indeed intentions and not prayers) and people are free to add their own intentions spontaneously. It's all very prayerful and seems to me a benefit of the reforms.

It is also pointed out that the Biddings should not include "thank-you" prayers and the question is then raised from time to time: should there be a place in the Mass to thank God specifically for the good things that have happened rather than only asking for help with problems?

[FrGareth]

a total inability to sing seems to be a prerequisite for ordination...

I arrived at seminary as one of those no-hopers who had been told at school "not to sing because I was putting the rest of the class off" and whose initial efforts at singing the Responsorial Psalm were branded "painful" by classmates.

After several years of attention in group sessions and by a personal singing coach, I can now sing Gaisford's setting of Eucharistic Prayer II without off-notes on a good day.

In my 6 years at Wonersh, only two students were ever exempted from Psalm duties because of a proven inability to sing. The rest got coached!

G

[alan29]

Ours are written by the PP, though read by a reader. I bet we're not alone. There was one exception after the Japanese tsunami, my wife, who was reading that week and who also knows Japanese, popped one in on their behalf in their language.

[Calum Cille]

Less Latin

I have been in love with Latin ever since someone painted on the outside of my school, in letters six feet high "Veni, vidi, ivi." It just wouldn't have been funny in English (or Welsh, or Gaelic).

Except that it isn't funny in Latin because it doesn't work whereas "tigim, cím, imím" does work. I suggest "veni, vidi, abii."

Come on, lighten up, CC!

It's not supposed to work in Latin, only in English. "ivi" is clearly intended to be "ivy", which is mildly (if not very) funny. Just the sort of thing a silly schoolboy would do and then run away giggling.

Congratulations on your mastery of the obvious (obvious to me, at least), Southern Comfort.

The poster, nazard, suggested that it wouldn't have been funny in English or Welsh or Gaelic, implying that it was only funny in Latin. My point was that it isn't funny in Latin; the implication therefore is that it is only funny because of English.

Here's one that works solely in Gaelic including a pun on the word ivy (eidhneán): tagann mé, feiceann mé, 's eidhneán mé, so the poster, nazard, was wrong about it not being funny in Gaelic.

[Calum Cille]

Let me try again. "Veni, vidi, ivi" works because Latin words facilitate an English pun. The following example from the old days uses Gaelic words to facilitate an English pun. The original Gaelic phrase is "itheam, òlam, caidleam" (let me eat, let me drink, let me sleep); posted on the headmaster's door, "itheam, òlam, canam". We could have a competition to see how many we can get out of "itheam, òlam, caidleam" and "veni, vidi, vici" respectively. If you've got only two of these languages, then you might have reason to be particularly fond of Latin as an alternative to English. If you've got all three then you have two alternatives to English to be fond of. "Veni, vidi, Mhàiri" is quite cute but having a bit of Greek would further amplify one's appreciation of languages; I'm sure most people here will get the English joke in "eta, beta, pi". Perhaps Gwyn can come up with some (polite!) Welsh examples?

Sadly, the Latin's all gone now in most parishes - including the schools. No magic language in church, please, the atheists amongst us don't like it either unless they're Harry Potter fans. (After my short digression, I'm back on topic!)

[quaeritor]

Long long ago an old priest of my acquaintance, when carrying something heavy or hot would cry out the admonitory "Mens vester ego!"

?

Q

[mcb]

"Mens vester ego!"

Or something sharp, or protruding?