Better and Worse Aspects of the Reform

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nazard
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Re: Better and Worse Aspects of the Reform

Post by nazard »

Eastern Promise wrote:Sacrifice, Schmacrifice. All we need is love, surely?


That is Lennon and McCartney. As St Paul points out, what use is love if it is not translated into action? That Jesus offers himself as a sacrifice is an example to us all that we are all called to sacrice ourselves. For all of us that will involve giving time, effort and wealth as the practical side of that love. Being present at mass is your chance to add yourself to that sacrifice and so be inspired to go out and show love to everyone. As a musician you have a duty to minister (which means care) for the community by using your music to reinforce that message. Love one another as I have loved you. That is a very high ideal. You are making music to help people to love one another, even to the point of martyrdom. Quite a responsibility. J S Bach used to write on all his sacred music "Soli Deo gloria." Can we all say that about our musical efforts? Does our music help the only cause that really matters: the salvation of the whole human race through the love of God?
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Calum Cille
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Re: Better and Worse Aspects of the Reform

Post by Calum Cille »

Smuaintean air oidhch' fhéill Phallaidigh (thoughts on St Palladius' eve).

nazard wrote:Quite a responsibility. J S Bach used to write on all his sacred music "Soli Deo gloria." Can we all say that about our musical efforts? Does our music help the only cause that really matters: the salvation of the whole human race through the love of God?

Catholic music is currently schizoid. Organs try to hold the beat of pop songs and guitars try to emulate four-part harmony. This is truly deficient. If we can't even do musical styles justice, how helpful is that?

I barely understand the point of such a question when the characteristics of such 'helpful' music are barely defined at all by church authorities and when there is no sober, restrained, detailed and structured discussion on the subject because the general attitude is that composition is more or less a free for all, the discriminating factor being ultimately the prevailing musical tastes of the church music market-place, ie, clergy, music directors, parish choirs and congregations, who all know what they like and are usually much less sure of stuff that isn't like what they already like.

Internet discussion of the subject is full of digs, vituperation, the sound of pressure cookers letting off steam, etc, and yet it is surely one of the most important points for serious, responsible discussion. The matter remains extremely relativistic, giving the impression that almost any music helps "the only cause that really matters". Referring people to various authors and articles on the subject is not a substitute for building community or consensus.
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Calum Cille
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Re: Better and Worse Aspects of the Reform

Post by Calum Cille »

Smuaintean air là fhéill Phallaidigh.

nazard wrote:Quite a responsibility. J S Bach used to write on all his sacred music "Soli Deo gloria." Can we all say that about our musical efforts? Does our music help the only cause that really matters: the salvation of the whole human race through the love of God?

This question of sacrifice is not just a question for composers but also leaders of music.

"It is highly desirable that organists and other musicians should not only possess the skill to play properly the instrument entrusted to them: they should also enter into and be thoroughly aware of the spirit of the Liturgy, so that even when playing ex tempore, they will enrich the sacred celebration according to the true nature of each of its parts, and encourage the participation of the faithful."

A parish which shall remain nameless (but if I call it Nn. Corp is Ciste, you could have a guess at which country it's in) has an organist at Sunday mass who often fails to play the music straight away when the appropriate point in the mass is reached; this person plays painfully slowly, wrong chords are frequently played, and the final hymn ceases when the priest has barely taken a step off the altar. Since organists sometimes don't "possess the skill to play properly the instrument entrusted to them", would it be 'helpful' to compose three-part harmony for them because four-part harmony is too testing in performance (even after plenty of practice) for a sufficient number organists who play at mass? Would it be 'helpful' to have unaccompanied singing when the organist can't play the instrument properly and no other instrumentalists are willing to lead the singing? I often find that bad organ playing is considered better than none because modern culture does not prefer unaccompanied unison singing. Some bad organists can't stand down because they feel obliged to play and sacrifice their pride. Others can't stand down because they can't sacrifice their pride! Is crushingly bad organ playing 'helping' or should sacrifice be called for?

I can see the news now.

Elderly organist fired after 40 years service. "It's a sad day when the liturgy is more important than me being honoured," dithery old butter-fingers railed. "I should be allowed play myself into the grave." Fr. Geigean today defended his decision to relieve the manual from the grope of a habitual note-crusher. "There were just too many wrong steps and slip ups." Voices from the congregation are highly critical of the parochus. "Just because the organist forgets to play sometimes doesn't mean that playing isn't good," said Mr Alf Deaf. Mrs Nora Clew opined, "We should be grateful our organist is still alive. In some parishes, they aren't, you know." Not all voices were unanimous though: "I found the organ playing very monotonous," said a Mr Tony Directum.
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Nick Baty
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Re: Better and Worse Aspects of the Reform

Post by Nick Baty »

An elderly priest once told me the Bene Merenti medal was "an award given to elderly organists to encourage them to stop". (Not wishing to appear ageist, I would stress that I have heard some pretty grim organ playing from much younger people too.)

And have you ever worked with a technically brilliant organist who has no idea how to accompany? The excellent recitalist is not always a good accompanist.
nazard
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Re: Better and Worse Aspects of the Reform

Post by nazard »

I have on occasions mentioned our parish music group and their remarkable guitarist. When the guitarists skills were being discussed at the Liturgy Committee a parishioner stated perfectly seriously:

"You can't deny Rodney (name changed to protect the guilty) his (gender randomised for further protection) ministry just because he can't play!"

This view was accepted by the parish priest. Five tone deaf priests in a row have not helped, especially as one believed he could sing. Fr Foster-Jenkins has now moved on, and the music group has finally given up. Mass attendance is up by 40% in two years, which could just be coincidence.

On the subject of three rather than four part harmony, I have mixed feelings. If the community is singing well and just needs a bit of help, even two parts will do. On the other hand, if a few years bad music has driven away everyone with any music in them, which is the effect of bad music, then the incoming organist or other musicians need to play well enough to attract a few singers back.

The other point which is often overlooked is that an organ is not the same as a piano. Just because the operator interface looks familiar does not imply that the way of using it is the same. Pianists really do need conversion lessons if they want to play the organ. Don't let me put you off though: its the greatest instrument of all.
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Nick Baty
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Re: Better and Worse Aspects of the Reform

Post by Nick Baty »

I don't consider myself a pianist or an organist – but I'm not a bad accompanist.
It's a question of being aware of what's going on. Sometimes you lead the assembly, sometimes you simply support as they lead you. (I'd challenge anyone to keep Sweet Sacrament Divine going at exactly the same tempo throughout!)
But we've strayed off topic and the bear is lurking!
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Calum Cille
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Re: Better and Worse Aspects of the Reform

Post by Calum Cille »

nazard wrote:Not worth the bother
The bidding prayers

nazard, would you care to expound/expand/vent/rant/hold forth, whatever takes your fancy?
nazard
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Re: Better and Worse Aspects of the Reform

Post by nazard »

Calum Cille wrote:
nazard wrote:Not worth the bother
The bidding prayers

nazard, would you care to expound/expand/vent/rant/hold forth, whatever takes your fancy?


I'll try not to rant, but to expound.

The bidding prayers are pretty well unscripted and a lay person is free to have a go at them. This makes them a very variable commodity. The bard's maxim that brevity is the soul of wit is often forgotten. Sometimes the church's suggestion that the bidding prayers be about four in number is ignored: we have a parishioner who always gets into the low teens. Sometimes what we are asked to pray for is of questionable morality: for example, triumph for a particular faction. One that always niggles me is that we are often asked to pray that people are successful in their exams. This reminds me of a pupil in my school who was expected to fail totally at O level. In fact, the pupil did moderately well and was admitted to the sixth form. Unable to cope, the pupil developed severe depression. We do need the courage to pray the fiat: Thy will be done. It is the most difficult of prayers.

The last difficulty is the introduction to the "Hail Mary". People often forget that we are asking Mary to pray for us (sinners).

A development I like: during Easter I have heard the Regina Coeli sung instead of saying the Hail Mary. I suggest that outside Easter parishes could sing the Ave Maria. Paul VI did put it in his book of chants for everyone to learn.

The worst habit I have come across is when the priest asks everyone in the congregation to say a bidding prayer in turn. When this happens I always pray for the return of the Tridentine mass. I can't resist seeing the look on the priest's face.

So, to sum up, the bidding prayers sometimes work, and are often a bit lacking, and sometimes dreadful.
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Nick Baty
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Re: Better and Worse Aspects of the Reform

Post by Nick Baty »

nazard wrote:The last difficulty is the introduction to the "Hail Mary".

Will this survive now that we are crossing every 't' and dotting every 'i'?
alan29
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Re: Better and Worse Aspects of the Reform

Post by alan29 »

Nick Baty wrote:
nazard wrote:The last difficulty is the introduction to the "Hail Mary".

Will this survive now that we are crossing every 't' and dotting every 'i'?


It shouldn't if we return to conforming to the Roman norm.
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contrabordun
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Re: Better and Worse Aspects of the Reform

Post by contrabordun »

Nick Baty wrote:I'd challenge anyone to keep Sweet Sacrament Divine going at exactly the same tempo throughout!

Challenge accepted. The choir's scars are healing nicely, and most times we do it, the congregation manage to catch up by the middle of the following bar in each verse. :twisted:
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keitha
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Re: Better and Worse Aspects of the Reform

Post by keitha »

To continue with the challenge, I have now managed to get two parishes singing it in strict tempo...and our City-wide Corpus Christi procession. Now for 'Hail Glorious St Patrick' and 'Sweet heart of Jesus'!

Back to the topic - I think with the Bidding Prayers, conceptually, absolutely nothing wrong with them but, in practice, when everyone has a 'go' at them it can become cringemaking. Priests really do need to keep some sort of control. I wrote the prayers for my late wife's funeral a few years ago with input from my two sons and our Parish Priest. My younger son (then aged 15) wanted to read them, and did it very well. Many people later told me that gave a great deal of meaning to the Mass. I can also remember being told in the late 1960's that they were coming in, and that they were an old practice in the Roman Rite from as far back as the fourth century, previously abandoned, and now returning.
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Re: Better and Worse Aspects of the Reform

Post by Eastern Promise »

There's a guy in our parish who, when it's his turn in open bidding prayers, invariably begins "Dear Lord, as you no doubt read in the Guardian this week..."
alan29
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Re: Better and Worse Aspects of the Reform

Post by alan29 »

Eastern Promise wrote:There's a guy in our parish who, when it's his turn in open bidding prayers, invariably begins "Dear Lord, as you no doubt read in the Guardian this week..."

:mrgreen:
Not the NoW then?
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Calum Cille
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Re: Better and Worse Aspects of the Reform

Post by Calum Cille »

nazard wrote:Not worth the bother
The bidding prayers

Are they not worth the bother, as nazard says?

Every word in the eucharistic prayer is scripted, excluding even a theologically trained priest from adding his tuppence worth. Books are already being resorted to for the biddings. Would it be desirable to script a fixed prayer for every kind of circumstance one might need to take into account in the Prayer of the Faithful? The result of that might be that certain specific topics, institutions or individuals would never get another direct mention at mass again and the priest would be relieved of a certain pressure of responsibility.
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