Missal Chant Setting of Kyrie Eleison / Lord Have Mercy

[JW]

The plainchant mass settings usually set the final 'Lord, have mercy', to different music to the first 'Lord, have mercy' (because the first is addressed to God the Father and the third to God the Holy Spirit). This convention is not observed in the setting used in the missal, and though an alternative for the people is given for the Greek, from the original Kyrie, this is unlikely to be used as it sounds strange to the modern ear and, in any case, the tendency will be to repeat what the leader sings. I must admit that, when we used this setting in Lent 3 or so years ago I re-set the final 'Kyrie'. There are no copyright issues as this is a very ancient setting of the Kyrie for ferial days.

What do you think

[mcb]

the first is addressed to God the Father and the third to God the Holy Spirit

Not true, surely?

You were sent to heal the contrite of heart: Lord, have mercy.
You came to call sinners: Christ, have mercy.
You are seated at the right hand of the Father to intercede for us: Lord, have mercy.

All addressed to the Son.

[Calum Cille]

Section 52 of the General Instruction on the Roman Missal:
Quando Kýrie cantatur ut pars actus pænitentialis, singulis acclamationibus «tropus» praeponitur.
When the Kyrie is sung as a part of the Act of Penitence, a trope may precede each acclamation.

The main body of the Actus pænitentialis has three basic alternative forms.
A The confiteor prayer
B 2 verses & responses: Kyrie, eleison / Et salutare tuum da nobis.
C 3 verses & responses: Kyrie, eleison / Christe, eleison / Kyrie, eleison.
Tropi may be used when the Kyrie is used as an alternative to form C.

Do we agree that traditional tropi or prosulæ are thus permitted by the General Instruction on the Roman Missal?

The final prosulæ of Orbis factor are addressed to both Christ and the Paraclete:
Your Father and You and the Spirit of Both - Lord, have mercy -
God we know to be One and Three - Lord, have mercy -
O clement Paraclete, may you stand by us that we may live in You - Lord, have mercy

[presbyter]

As a point of information, I think that in Appendix VI of the imminent Missal, we will find the alternative, approved invocations for the third form of Penitential Act.

Samples I have seen are addressed to Christ. For example:

Lord Jesus, you came to gather the nations into the peace of God’s kingdom: Lord, have mercy.
The people reply:
Lord, have mercy.
The Priest:
You come in word and in sacrament to strengthen us and make us holy: Christ, have mercy.
The people reply:
Christ, have mercy.
The Priest:
You will come again in glory with salvation for your people: Lord, have mercy.
The people reply:
Lord, have mercy.




Lord Jesus, you came to reconcile us to the Father and to one another: Lord, have mercy.
The people reply:
Lord, have mercy.
The Priest:
You heal the wounds of our sin and division: Christ, have mercy.
The people reply:
Christ, have mercy.
The Priest:
You intercede for us with the Father: Lord, have mercy.
The people reply:
Lord, have mercy.


Lord Jesus, you call your people to turn away from sin: Lord, have mercy.
The people reply:
Lord, have mercy.
You teach us wisdom, and write your truth in our inmost heart: Christ, have mercy.
The people reply:
Christ, have mercy.
The Priest:
You forgive sins through the ministry of reconciliation: Lord, have mercy.
The people reply:
Lord, have mercy.

[Southern Comfort]

Appendix VI to the US Missal contains only seven alternative texts. At one stage the UK Bishops requested no less than fifteen texts, so it will be interesting to see if this comes to pass.

[John Ainslie]

The 1970 Order of Mass clearly expects the invocations to be all addressed to Jesus Christ - and indeed, Kyrios is a New Testament title for him. But historically, once the original variable number of invocations had hardened to nine, this was interpreted as trinitarian, certainly from the 9th century Amalar of Metz until the 20th century. Many medieval tropes were trinitarian.

[JW]

Certainly the invocations of Penitential Rite C are addressed to Christ and there is an argument to suggest that the whole kyrie litany is addressed to Christ. However, I have always thought that the Kyrie litany in the other penitential rites cannot be other than trinitarian and there is also tradition to support this as John Ainslie has pointed out.

Consider this:
- the greeting is trinitarian
- the confiteor is addressed to 'Almighty God'
- the absolution preceding the kyrie invokes 'Almighty God'

Immediately after the absolution we say 'kyrie eleison' or 'Lord have mercy'.

The immediately following Gloria or Opening Prayer begins by addressing God (often 'omnipotens Deus'..

In such a context, it is hard to see how anyone is supposed to assume that a kyrie litany immediately following the absolution changes focus to address God the Son exclusively: the immediate assumption is the the Kyrie eleison, Christe eleison, Kyrie eleison format is trinitarian.

Why are most of the plainchant kyries in a/b/c format rather than a / b/ a format - which would seem better word-setting: same text = same music.

[presbyter]

Historically, the use of Christe Eleison in the litany is a Roman innovation. See Pope Gregory the Great, Letter to John, Bishop of Syracuse.

Further, we neither have said nor now say the Kyrie Eleison, as it is said by the Greeks: for among the Greeks all say it together; but with us it is said by the clerks, and responded to by the people; and as often as it is said, Christe Eleison is said also, which is not said at all among the Greeks. Further, in daily masses we suppress some things that are usually said, and say only Kyrie Eleison, Christe Eleison, so as to devote ourselves a little longer to these words of deprecation.

[Calum Cille]

Historically, the use of Christe Eleison in the litany is a Roman innovation. See Pope Gregory the Great, Letter to John, Bishop of Syracuse.

As is this modern and apparently restrictive use of tropes all addressing Christ alone. Do we agree that traditional trinitarian forms are to be seen as theologically unsuited to the modern penitential rite C, or merely as not in accord with instruction?

[presbyter]

Do we agree that traditional trinitarian forms are to be seen as theologically unsuited to the modern penitential rite C, or merely as not in accord with instruction?

Well GIRM seems to imply that troped or not, the entire litany is addressed to Jesus, who is both "Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36)

52. After the Penitential Act, the Kyrie is always begun, unless it has already been included as part of the Penitential Act. Since it is a chant by which the faithful acclaim the Lord and implore his mercy, it is ordinarily done by all, that is, by the people and the choir or cantor having a part in it.

But in order to answer CC's question more fully, perhaps some delving into Eastern litanies is called for.

[John Ainslie]

There's a long and detailed essay (68 pages!) by Peter Jeffery in The Place of Christ in Liturgical Prayer, ed. Bryan Spinks, Liturgical Press 2008. This covers Eastern as well as Western usage and explains why Jungmann (even Jungmann!) was mistaken in what he wrote. The way Kyrie eleison has been turned into a troped Penitential Rite in the 1970 Order of Mass is apparently quite novel.

[presbyter]

The way Kyrie eleison has been turned into a troped Penitential Rite in the 1970 Order of Mass is apparently quite novel.

Thank you John for this insight. A quick and admittedly somewhat superficial trawl through some Eastern rites, and their ancient litanies in the celebration of the Eucharist, reveals Kyrie eleison as a response to what we might call Bidding Prayers, addressed to Christ. Christe Eleison is indeed absent.

I cannot see, at a glance, any equivalent of our Penitential Act III form where the tropes are statements of Christ's saving work and petitions for that same work to be present among the assembly. For example:

You were sent to heal the contrite of heart. (i.e. We gather in your name with contrite hearts) Lord have mercy. (i.e. In your mercy, heal us now.)

I am open to correction on this, for I have only taken a rapid overview.

CC - can you post some more texts of medieval tropes please?

[presbyter]

If anyone is beginning to wonder what it is we are discussing, try this example from Spain - complete with drone but not quite organum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkpFB6urAEE

[alan29]

Wasn't troping one of the things that were tidied up at Trent?

[JW]

But in order to answer CC's question more fully, perhaps some delving into Eastern litanies is called for.

The Melkite Rite website claims that the Kyrie is trinitarian, here:
http://www.melkite.org/Introits.html.

Personally, while rite C has to be addressed to Christ, when the other rites are used, I pray this as a trinitarian litany and interpret musical settings accordingly.

Have we a historian somewhere who can explain the background to the current interpretation of this prayer? Seems like a good dissertation subject!