The New Texts: A Seminar for Composers

[Nick Baty]

Can parishes continue to sing settings of the old texts (including paraphrases) - if not, who's going to stop them?

I don't think paraphrases have ever been allowed in England & Wales. Noone's succeeded in preventing parishes singing them so far. And noone's succeeded in preventing one or two publishers from publishing them either!

[musicus]

Yes, I know. But I'd love to hear an official answer to these questions.

[HallamPhil]

This is not an official answer but this is where I think we are ... but could be very wrong

The definitive texts for singing - and how definitive they really are.
If by that you mean the Ordinary texts then i think they are as in America???

What musical settings will be available in Advent 2011 - and when can we start teaching/using them?
I am hoping this can start 6 months before full implementation in Advent 2011 but so much depends on the readiness of the authorising panel to OK the applications to publsih music using the ICEL texts.

What's this I hear about imprimaturs and approval processes?
I think that's what I referred to as authorising panel. I'm sure we'll hear more about this nameless group which will basically check that the settings are true to the ICEL texts. It seems to me unlikely that they can regulate for style or musical competence as this will be a matter of individual taste or perception.

Can parishes continue to sing settings of the old texts (including paraphrases) - if not, who's going to stop them?
I'm sure the hope will be that folk will adopt the intntion to move towards emplying settings of the revised texts. I would share this hope also but this transition will take some longer than others. The notion of liturgical police is unnecessary but we musicians would hope to enable the transition worthily whatever we may feel about the translation itself. we dare not repeat what happened over the change into the vernacular where so many skilled musicians failed to deploy their skills to the task.

Why all this talk about entrance antiphons etc - and which texts can we use (and where can we get them)?
Well let's see how few are really taling about them. As you know I have composed a few of these processional psalms in the past for particular occasions. I think they represent an interesting area for composers to explore but I do not think this will be a priority for the majority no matter what the particular idiosyncratic passions of some may be.

Have the musical priorities at Mass changed at all?
I doubt it. The jury still seems ut on the final 'hymn' although having followed this 'guideline' for a while now most folk think it's a tradition already!

Hope this unofficial ramble is useful! Next week is another week!

[HallamPhil]

If I had been more thoughtful I suppose I might have added 'All that is hidden will be made clear'!.... I hope

[Nick Baty]

An excellent response from Hallam Phil, as usual!

[presbyter]

Why all this talk about entrance antiphons etc - and which texts can we use (and where can we get them)?
...........

John Ainslie has already pointed us to some sample texts.

I myself should like to hear those giving the presentations offering us the rationale behind the possibility of an increase in use of antiphons.

I should like to hear how composers might serve the many, many, many, many parishes where the present musical fare is Hymns Old and New (first edition with supplement - the blue plastic cover) and that's it! (Well no - that's not it - the many, many parishes who use the aforementioned hymnal but limit their repertoire to perhaps 35 hymns and that's it!)

I should like to hear presentations grounded in grass-roots, parish Catholicism - taking into account the reality of the life of the Church in 21st century E & W.

I should like to hear - if possible given the time constraints of the day - something about music and, if I may indulge in a neologism, multi-inculturation.

[HallamPhil]

Presbyter, you have erroneously attributed a comment to me. Please be more careful.

[presbyter]

Why all this talk about entrance antiphons etc - and which texts can we use (and where can we get them)?
.

Ooops - should have been the musical bear. Sorry.

[Nick Baty]

There's a song there:
"Pres-by-ter and his amazing musical bear.
Dum, de, dum-de-dum-dum...."
OK I'll get me coat!

[musicus]

This looks interesting and useful and I intend to be there. One of the advertised contributors would like to know what our hopes and expectations of the sessions might be, so please post your thoughts here.

I apologise for quoting myself - it is, in fact, from the Original Post, but we are on page 4 now! - but I just wanted to remind people that the point of this thread is to suggest questions that might usefully be addressed at the seminars. My recent list of questions was one such response. I mention this not with any intention of shutting down discussion or the posting of answers or references to information elsewhere on this forum, but merely of refocusing the topic.

[Nick Baty]

Well I'd like to know more about the panel who must approve (textually) new settings of the Mass. Who they are and where/when can they be approached. Given the timescale I'm presuming there'll be 300 of them working 24/7 for the next few weeks – otherwise, how will any get their products approved in time for publication? And doesn't their approval have to come before ICEL grant permission to use their stuff?

[HallamPhil]

(In response to Nick/Musicus) I suspect that whoever the panel may be will remain a mystery. I don't see this being a problem ... they may have some 'power', therefore, but if their purpose is to check for adherence to the text, a task composers should equally apply ourselves to, then they will be playing a role equivalent to textual proof-readers rather than musicians. But I suspect they will therefore be the body charged by ICEL to give the OK before material using its texts can be published. Any attempt to publish without their authorisation would then lead to a legitimate copyright dispute.

I don't suppose this is a restriction particular to E&W alone. I also think it's a good idea to have texts (whatever we may think of them) controlled. This site has frequently commented upon the instances of textual adaptations which have been unfaithful or injudicious.

Once a setting is published/distributed it will then be subjected to the good or bad discernment of potential purchasers or users. I sense that next week will be a significant week if the diocesan liturgy reps are to receive anything of value at their February meeting. One would hope that all that is hidden will be made clear. But this should certainly include guidelines to composers, procedure re the panel and official publication of the text authorised for E&W.

I was at a funeral earlier today and was struck by the seeming relevance of the reading which spoke of what, on the one hand, is seen but temporary and what, on the other, is unseen but eternal.

Roll on next week or the week after, or the week after .... when we shall get news of the new 'temporary'. Come February I shall be enjoying a holiday in India and sparing a thought for the eternal.

[Southern Comfort]

I don't suppose this is a restriction particular to E&W alone. I also think it's a good idea to have texts (whatever we may think of them) controlled. This site has frequently commented upon the instances of textual adaptations which have been unfaithful or injudicious.

I can't help remembering Joseph Gelineau, who said that as a musician and liturgist he could not necessarily restrict himself to every jot and tittle of the text, but had to adapt slightly in order to have an authentic act of creativity. But then of course he was also a theologian and would not have perpetrated a heresy.

That's what this is really about: making sure that composers do not unwittingly stray from Church doctrine in their adaptations, as some have notoriously done in the past (in their most popular works, alas ). It's certainly not about protecting copyright, since you can make rather more than slight adaptations without affecting the copyright ownership of a text.

[presbyter]

My personal opinion is that we need very firm guidelines for composers, as an act of charity towards them. Composers need to know, before they put pen to paper, what is permissible and what is not. No one wants to spend time writing music only to find it has been a waste of that time because a nameless committee thinks a composition has gone too far in adapting a prescribed text. Composers need enough information about the texts that should make the committee quasi-redundant.

Here, for example, is what Peter Jones has proposed for the "Coventry" Glory to God re-write. Some readers may have sung this (in a slightly different form) at a Summer School seminar 18 months ago. There's a little bit more for the people to sing. But I know that Peter has no idea if this adaptation of the text has crossed the boundary into the realm of proscribed modifications.

Glory to God, glory in the highest,
and on earth peace to people of good will.

Glory to God, glory in the highest,
and on earth peace to people of good will.

We praise you, we bless you,

Glory in the highest

we adore you,

Glory in the highest

we glorify you, we give you thanks for your great glory,

Lord God,

Glory in the highest

heavenly King,

Glory in the highest

O God, almighty Father.

Glory to God, glory in the highest,
and on earth peace to people of good will.

Lord Jesus Christ, Only Begotten Son,
Lord God, Lamb of God,
Son of the Father,
you take away the sins of the world,
have mercy on us;

have mercy on us;

you take away the sins of the world, receive our prayer;

receive our prayer;

you are seated at the right hand of the Father, have mercy on us.

have mercy on us;

Glory to God, glory in the highest,
and on earth peace to people of good will.

Glory to God, glory in the highest,
and on earth peace to people of good will.

For you alone are the Holy One,
you alone are the Lord,
you alone are the Most High, Jesus Christ, with the Holy Spirit,
in the glory of God,
the glory of God the Father.

Glory to God, glory in the highest,
and on earth peace to people of good will.

Amen.

Amen

I also happen to know that Peter has composed some Eucharistic Acclamations and one of the "Mystery of Faith" texts is presently set verbatim:

When we eat this Bread
and drink this Cup,
we proclaim your death, O Lord,
until you come again.

But musically, this particular setting works much better as

When we eat this Bread
and when we drink this Cup,
we proclaim your death, O Lord,
until you come again.

(Haugen has done something similar in his re-write of Mass of Creation) Is this a legitimate adaptation or a proscribed modification?

Furthermore - let's say, for example, that Paul Inwood might have re-written the Gathering and Coventry Masses/Acclamations (and I don't know if he has) and in his settings, he has retained the Hosannas in the Mystery of Faith texts. Is that legitimate or not?

I think it is discourteous to composers - and even an act against the Golden Rule (Sermon on the Mount - Mtt 7:12) - even to entertain the possibility of the Bishops producing guidelines that are wooly in thought and imprecise in meaning. Let's have some concrete guidelines at these seminars please.

[Southern Comfort]

Furthermore - let's say, for example, that Paul Inwood might have re-written the Gathering and Coventry Masses/Acclamations (and I don't know if he has) and in his settings, he has retained the Hosannas in the Mystery of Faith texts. Is that legitimate or not?

I think it is discourteous to composers - and even an act against the Golden Rule (Sermon on the Mount - Mtt 7:12) - even to entertain the possibility of the Bishops producing guidelines that are wooly in thought and imprecise in meaning. Let's have some concrete guidelines at these seminars please.

Firstly, regarding the Sanctus, this is not an ICEL text in any case, so publishers are free to do what they wish in Sanctus settings.

Secondly, in the memorial acclamations, the Hosannas would be legitimate, given that all these Mass settings, which will also apparently be included in a revised edition of Laudate, are also used by Anglicans, to whom these strictures do not apply. A simple rubric saying "Stop here if you are Roman Catholic" would suffice! Or more probably, "Anglican users may continue with the Hosannas". This consideration also enables the acclamation "Christ had died" to continue in use in published settings, even though Roman Catholic users will not be able to use it in the liturgy.

ICEL cannot legislate for what users of other denominations may use, nor (in the spirit of Anglicanorum Coetibus!) deny publishers the right to supply them with product, which would open ICEL to the possibility of legal action. All they can do is ensure that texts printed conform to the official texts. Additions to the official texts, in the form of optional extra bars, do not come within their remit, and they have no legal right to police those additional texts, provided that the appropriate rubrics are in place.