What, please, are the guidelines for so-claaled lay ministries at Mass? GIRM seems unhelpful as far as the following is concerned.
(a) can a reader who has nor been present ay the beginning of the Mass come on and proclaim the readings and then (b) go out of the church after s/he has done his/her bit and the reappear at Communion to distribute?
(c) can a minister arrive 10 minutes afer Mass has started and then after the Our Father repair to the sacrtisty, put on an alb and then arrive on the sanctuary and distrubute communion?
(d) am I getting too annoyed about this? Those who know me will I am sure preserve my anonymity. Hints about my misgivings (and, frankly, irritation) are (politely) swept aside by the clergy.
Others (laity - dread word!) - have expressed cautious agreement.
I am very much in favour of lay ministry - what I am fearful of is the whole thing becoming a pantomime with added sacraments.
Advise please
M
Cameo roles
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docmattc
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Re: Cameo roles
gut feelings rather than legal pronouncements but:
(a)bad practice to both read and distribute in one Mass.
(b) arriving late/leaving early etc. Was it not the case (and maybe still is) that non-celebrating priests could arrive at communion is cassock, surplice and stole, assist with distribution, and then return to the presbytery? If so, there is clear precedent for ordinary ministers of communion to do this. I rather think its bad practice for extraordinary ministers to habitually not be present for all of the Mass- unless their absence is connected with Children's liturgy. (If this is the case- see (a)). Lay ministry of this sort is about folk coming from the congregation/community rather than appearing from on high, dropped in to perform a function and then leaving.
(c) while GIRM says that lay ministers can wear an alb, should they? Our concensus here a while ago was essentially that those whose natural habitat was the sanctuary should be vested, but those who only made brief forays to the sanctuary for a specific function need not.
(d) No, I think its a legit irritation!
(a)bad practice to both read and distribute in one Mass.
(b) arriving late/leaving early etc. Was it not the case (and maybe still is) that non-celebrating priests could arrive at communion is cassock, surplice and stole, assist with distribution, and then return to the presbytery? If so, there is clear precedent for ordinary ministers of communion to do this. I rather think its bad practice for extraordinary ministers to habitually not be present for all of the Mass- unless their absence is connected with Children's liturgy. (If this is the case- see (a)). Lay ministry of this sort is about folk coming from the congregation/community rather than appearing from on high, dropped in to perform a function and then leaving.
(c) while GIRM says that lay ministers can wear an alb, should they? Our concensus here a while ago was essentially that those whose natural habitat was the sanctuary should be vested, but those who only made brief forays to the sanctuary for a specific function need not.
(d) No, I think its a legit irritation!
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docmattc
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Re: Cameo roles
re (a)
GIRM 109: if there are several readings, it is well to distribute them among a number of lectors. The same applies for the other ministries.
Kind of implies 1 ministry per Mass where possible
GIRM 109: if there are several readings, it is well to distribute them among a number of lectors. The same applies for the other ministries.
Kind of implies 1 ministry per Mass where possible
Re: Cameo roles
This may or may not be on topic, but my concern is also about people being involved at their own rather extraordinary level.
Some of our musicians decided that there would be a planning meeting for parish music once every six or eight weeks. I am just the old, and only, organist, and have been MD, still am, for too many years to count, so involvement should be welcome. However, we have seven turn up at the planning meeting, only one of whom has come along to practise anything over the last three months. Indeed we no longer have regular practices at all, because of other commitments of most of the people concerned.
I have now been reminded that we are due to meet this Wednesday evening. My gut reaction is that planning should be done by two or at most three people, and these should be willing also make time to rehearse at other times than just before one Mass a month, on my Sunday off. Also, it goes without saying, that those involved should make the effort to learn to sing the psalm on 'their' Sunday, and be generally liturgically literate.
But if I email this back to the choir mailing list, I will be seen as the spoiler, as I also have a tendency to avoid CJM, over paraphrased Mass settings, and sticking in Light up the Fire 'because some people really like it.'
My gut instinct is to tell them to plan and deliver a month, and I will do the next one, except that I have to be away on a Sunday in Feb when I will have to ask for cover.
We do have a core of six or so choir members who have been loyally practising for over twenty years, and whose family serious illness and bereavements, and age, now excuse them from turning out on dark nights. It is the younger ones from whom I expect greater commitment particularly as they seem to want to be involved in the choices of what is sung.
Some of our musicians decided that there would be a planning meeting for parish music once every six or eight weeks. I am just the old, and only, organist, and have been MD, still am, for too many years to count, so involvement should be welcome. However, we have seven turn up at the planning meeting, only one of whom has come along to practise anything over the last three months. Indeed we no longer have regular practices at all, because of other commitments of most of the people concerned.
I have now been reminded that we are due to meet this Wednesday evening. My gut reaction is that planning should be done by two or at most three people, and these should be willing also make time to rehearse at other times than just before one Mass a month, on my Sunday off. Also, it goes without saying, that those involved should make the effort to learn to sing the psalm on 'their' Sunday, and be generally liturgically literate.
But if I email this back to the choir mailing list, I will be seen as the spoiler, as I also have a tendency to avoid CJM, over paraphrased Mass settings, and sticking in Light up the Fire 'because some people really like it.'
My gut instinct is to tell them to plan and deliver a month, and I will do the next one, except that I have to be away on a Sunday in Feb when I will have to ask for cover.
We do have a core of six or so choir members who have been loyally practising for over twenty years, and whose family serious illness and bereavements, and age, now excuse them from turning out on dark nights. It is the younger ones from whom I expect greater commitment particularly as they seem to want to be involved in the choices of what is sung.
Re: Cameo roles
It reminds me of the universal practise in my youth of priests appearing cancrizans just before communion to help with the distribution. And swiftly de materialising straight afterwards.
Plus ca change, innit.
Plus ca change, innit.
Re: Cameo roles
Half the choir tend to arrive between the end of the 1st hymn and the Gloria. As the average choir numbers are about 5, ranging from 15ish to 70ish, I sometimes have to change the Gloria at the last minute to accommodate the abilities of those who turn up. 
JW
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Southern Comfort
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Re: Cameo roles
mcb wrote:alan29 wrote:appearing cancrizans
What, singing backwards?
Sideways, not backwards. I have this great image of priests sidling onto the sanctuary, trying not to be spotted.... 'cos they know they shouldn't be doing it!
Re: Cameo roles
Cancrizans would have been better if he had been a canon. 
Re: Cameo roles
What irritates me in my experience, is that if a Reader or Eucharistic Minister cannot come, they always seem to ask a choir member to cover their duty - because they know that said choir members will always be there. A tribute to my choir's loyalty maybe, bit very irritating if (as has happened) the one soprano left standing due to 'flu disappears just before the Agnus Dei! 
Re: Cameo roles
Hare wrote:What irritates me in my experience, is that if a Reader or Eucharistic Minister cannot come, they always seem to ask a choir member to cover their duty - because they know that said choir members will always be there. A tribute to my choir's loyalty maybe, bit very irritating if (as has happened) the one soprano left standing due to 'flu disappears just before the Agnus Dei!
Don't you know that Eucharistic Ministers are only out-ranked by a Patriarch?>
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gwyn
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Re: Cameo roles
How many ministries can or should be fulfilled by one individual at a celebration of Mass? Are there any guidelines?
Some churches are rather like cheap Guest-houses wherein the receptionist changes hat to become the porter, later donning a chef's hat in order to cook the bekkie.
I accept that in a small parish or at a chapel of ease a cantor might also read the scriptures, or an Extraordinary Minister of the Eucharist might also greet arrivals at the door, but in a large parish where more than 150 people attend Mass is that acceptable?
Diolch,
Gwyn.
Some churches are rather like cheap Guest-houses wherein the receptionist changes hat to become the porter, later donning a chef's hat in order to cook the bekkie.
I accept that in a small parish or at a chapel of ease a cantor might also read the scriptures, or an Extraordinary Minister of the Eucharist might also greet arrivals at the door, but in a large parish where more than 150 people attend Mass is that acceptable?
Diolch,
Gwyn.
Re: Cameo roles
Our practise used to be that it was only one ministry per person ..... readers could not be servers etc. The idea was to avoid little knots of busy-bodies with a finger in every pie.
However since our community has become more aged and sparse, we have people with more than one ministry. Though they don't exercise more than one at a given mass.
Should adult servers distribute communion if they are also Eucharistic ministers?
However since our community has become more aged and sparse, we have people with more than one ministry. Though they don't exercise more than one at a given mass.
Should adult servers distribute communion if they are also Eucharistic ministers?
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gwyn
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Re: Cameo roles
Alan29
That seems a sensible interpretation. Thanks Alan.
This does have a certain logic.
Our practise used to be that it was only one ministry per person ..... readers could not be servers etc. The idea was to avoid little knots of busy-bodies with a finger in every pie.
However since our community has become more aged and sparse, we have people with more than one ministry. Though they don't exercise more than one at a given mass.
That seems a sensible interpretation. Thanks Alan.
Should adult servers distribute communion if they are also Eucharistic ministers?
This does have a certain logic.
Re: Cameo roles
Of course, this discussion wouldn't have happened 60 years ago because the priest did it all.
I have wondered why so many people are taking on roles as Eucharistic Ministers and Readers, but it is nigh impossible (in our parish) to find catechists for FHC and RCIA programmes.
For a multitude of reasons, I'm stepping down as our parish's DOM at Easter. Though not the reason for stepping down, it is obvious that some people in the parish believe that musicians, psalmists and cantors are putting on a show, rather than ministering in the liturgy. Do they believe the same of readers and Eucharistic Ministers? By the way, is there a minimum age stipulated anywhere for Eucharistic ministers?
We have had servers, Eucharistic ministers and readers in our music group, and the music always seems to take 2nd place: to the extent that I have cantored a psalm after a better singer than me has read the 1st reading! Ideally, I think that people should decide on one ministry in accordance with their charisms and devote themselves to that. If there aren't sufficient for a Sunday Mass, then the priest or deacon could fill in.
I have wondered why so many people are taking on roles as Eucharistic Ministers and Readers, but it is nigh impossible (in our parish) to find catechists for FHC and RCIA programmes.
For a multitude of reasons, I'm stepping down as our parish's DOM at Easter. Though not the reason for stepping down, it is obvious that some people in the parish believe that musicians, psalmists and cantors are putting on a show, rather than ministering in the liturgy. Do they believe the same of readers and Eucharistic Ministers? By the way, is there a minimum age stipulated anywhere for Eucharistic ministers?
We have had servers, Eucharistic ministers and readers in our music group, and the music always seems to take 2nd place: to the extent that I have cantored a psalm after a better singer than me has read the 1st reading! Ideally, I think that people should decide on one ministry in accordance with their charisms and devote themselves to that. If there aren't sufficient for a Sunday Mass, then the priest or deacon could fill in.
JW