Areas of Difficulty

[alan29]

Why is "calix/calicem" translated as "chalice" in the words of institution, but as "cup" in the following peoples acclamation? What theological point is being made here?

[presbyter]

Nor let not my enemies exult over me;

So elegant to begin a sentence with a conjunction and one which already implies a negative, so that the whole might be read with the shade and feel of a double negative, reversing the meaning of the original intention.

[presbyter]

Why is "calix/calicem" translated as "chalice" in the words of institution, but as "cup" in the following peoples acclamation? What theological point is being made here?

It's the "sacred language" requirement but please - in arguing for a consistent house style - do not lobby for "chalice" instead of "cup" in the acclamation. The "Mystery of Faith" is difficult enough to set to music already.

[Southern Comfort]

Nor let not my enemies exult over me;

I know everyone is rightly pillorying this, but it is an editorial lapsus, not a syntactical or ignorance-of-English issue.

The original text (cf. Grail) is and let not my enemies rejoice over me

This has been changed progressively to and let not my enemies exult over me

and then finally to nor let my enemies exult over me

The problem is that in changing and to nor the one who changed it forgot to delete not further on in the line. This is a very common type of error that happens all the time, and any competent editor should have picked it up. However, competent editors are precisely what CDWDS do not possess.

[John Ainslie]

Southern Comfort is uncommonly forgiving of the evident carelessness. But there is more to it than that.

The CDW folks have decided to use the forthcoming Grail 4 version of the psalms to assist in the translation process. Fine in theory, but necessarily inconsistent in practice. Why?

The antiphons were originally selected (pre-eighth century) on the basis of the Vulgate translation or even the pre-Vulgate versio Romana. In many cases, the differences between a translation from the Latin and one from the Hebrew may be of little importance. In the Entrance Antiphon for Advent I quoted above, it may not matter that 'irrideant me' does not mean 'exult over me', as Grail 4 (2008 version) has it (what does this mean?), but 'make fun of me' (ICEL has 'mock me'). So much for keeping to the Latin, as LA demanded!

But try the Entrance Antiphon for Easter Sunday (no less): 'Resurrexi, et adhuc sum tecum, alleluia' and try to find that in any English version of the psalms (Ps 139(138):18b): Grail 4 (2008 version) has 'at the end, I am still at your side' - nothing about resurrection! No wonder that in this instance the CDW has steered clear of the Hebrew/Grail and kept the ICEL translation from the Latin unchanged: 'I have risen, and I am with you still, alleluia'.