Southern Comfort wrote: Now waiting to see if Credo III modulates up at Et unam sanctam...
thankfully no
No indeed. In D right the way through. Not comfortable with the organ lifting offso abruptly between each congregational phrase. Makes the music very 'choppy'.
Being in the congregation for this morning's Mass - some comments/thoughts.
Overall it was very moving, and what may seem odd at first is there were times when I forgot the Pope was there - it was the Mass that was important.
James MacMillan's Tu es Petrus was thrilling. I'm not sure how came across broadcast but stood in between these walls of sound it was quite exhilarating. I was interested that people I was with who would have no interest in this forum loved the joyful noise of it all.
I was pleased that Byrd Mass in 5 parts was being sung - good to have an English masterpiece. As to the polyphonic Sanctus - older readers can correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that previously the Sanctus followed the Preface whilst the Canon was said 'in secret' underneath - which I presume meant that it all felt unbroken. The experience in the current form, and this morning, was the prayer being broken.
Gabriel wrote:James MacMillan's Tu es Petrus was thrilling. I'm not sure how came across broadcast but stood in between these walls of sound it was quite exhilarating. I was interested that people I was with who would have no interest in this forum loved the joyful noise of it all.
Just as good on TV... Sounded spectacular
Last edited by Southern Comfort on Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Southern Comfort wrote:Now we're into the plainchant Alleluia, and it's clear that the organist does not know how to accompany the chant...
Why?
Poor choice of chords, especially inversions; returning to tonic before time; there are no perfect cadences in plainchant accompaniment; accompaniment was tonal rather than modal.... How much more would you like?
Amazing scenes on way from Vauxhall to Hyde Park..... And the Hallelujah Chorus is now being sung by the massed choir for the second time — at quite a lick!
Hare wrote:How else could it have been accompanied?
Smoothing the gaps between phrases, as happened with the cantors (as is normal). Absolutely no reason why that can't be done for a massed congregation as well, if the organist knows what he is doing. Having an abrupt cut-off between each sub-phrase is alien to the tradition of chant, apart from everything else.
Hare wrote:How else could it have been accompanied?
Smoothing the gaps between phrases, as happened with the cantors (as is normal). Absolutely no reason why that can't be done for a massed congregation as well, if the organist knows what he is doing. Having an abrupt cut-off between each sub-phrase is alien to the tradition of chant, apart from everything else.
40 years experience of accompanying congregations suggests that a certain amount of "assertiveness" is required to keep things on course, especially with a large congregation in a reverberant building - choirs and cantors can be accompanied. Congregations usually need to be led.
Southern Comfort wrote:Now we're into the plainchant Alleluia, and it's clear that the organist does not know how to accompany the chant...
Why?
Poor choice of chords, especially inversions; returning to tonic before time; there are no perfect cadences in plainchant accompaniment; accompaniment was tonal rather than modal.... How much more would you like?
I would like to go away and hide. Shows how carefully I was listening. However, the Westminster musicians are far more qualified than I, so I would be inclined to respect what they do.......
Hare wrote:However, the Westminster musicians are far more qualified than I, so I would be inclined to respect what they do.......
In many areas, yes, they are qualified, but not in this one, alas. None of those on the Cathedral's present musical establishment have any knowledge of the prior tradition of the chant. They have reinvented it from new. This is because most ex-Anglicans and young Catholics have little or no experience of the tradition of the chant. Or (if Anglican) they only know J H Arnold's unidiomatic accompaniments from the English Hymnal, etc.
While we're on the subject, I also wish the men of the choir would not bawl when they are singing plainchant. There's one bass with a loud, cavernous vibrato which is quiet alien to the spirit of the chant, and whose voice unfortunately pervades everything, from plainchant to polyphony. There is a tradition at Wesminster of oversinging everything in order to fill the huge space, compounded by the fact that the choir are in a different acoustic space and therefore sound remote, as if they are in the next room, even when they really project. When broadcast, of course, good mic'ing tends to disguise this.
Last edited by Southern Comfort on Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
An extraordinarily mature treble now singing Geoffrey Burgon's Nunc Dimittis (Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy) from Hyde Park. What an amazing voice! Hopefully he will go far.
We've just been told it was Liam McNally, incredibly aged 14 (many voices have broken long before this).
And the Pope has just greeted Nigel Swinford, the MD for this liturgy. The Pope's secretary has given him a rather larger gift box than the usual papal medal. Wonder what it was?
I understand Alex Marshall, our very talented young cellist from Summer School 2009 was bearing a candle lit from the Paschal Candle at Hyde Park. I know she made it to TV, but I will have to watch again to see if the SSG banner did the same, but it was certainly there.
