Papal Visit

[musicus]

We need an 'irony' emoticon!

[HelenR]

This is a may not be relevant to recent posts but is definitely relevant to the papal visit. Does anyone here know what preparations are being made for disabled people and those in wheelchairs to access the Cofton Park. I have heard that there are no proper pathways and am hoping that this isnt true. Please reassure me that this has been thought of and that I will be able to go with someone who is using a wheelchair. wishing there was a sign for intense prayer

[presbyter]

those in wheelchairs to access the Cofton Park. I have heard that there are no proper pathways and am hoping that this isnt true.

There are especially reserved places for over 800 wheelchairs with very good views of the sanctuary. Proper loo facilities there, of course. There are no pathways in Cofton Park, that is true - but there will be trackways laid down upon which wheelchairs can 'wheel'. You can see something of how it works here: http://www.thepapalvisit.org.uk/2010-Visit/Attending-Events/How-can-I-see-the-Pope-in-the-UK/Guide-to-Cofton-Park/Facilities-on-site Download the .pdf for more information. The wheelchair places are the purple rectangles.

[musicus]

This is a may not be relevant to recent posts but is definitely relevant to the papal visit.

In other words, Helen, you're on topic (and they might not be).

[presbyter]

Cofton Park - 2.9.10

[Angela Barber]

As I am rather past the first flush of youth I will not be going to Cofton Park, probably because I'd have to leave home at 0130 to pick up the coach. This early start has put off all the elderly members of our congregation and probably also has for many in the same situation from other parishes.
Can anyone tell me if it is intended to charge for the Magnificat booklet? We have 700 copies of this and are wondering what to do with them!
I read somewhere that "Shine Jesus shine" was to be included at some stage. Poor Pope! If this is the case, why can't they include "Colours of Day" just to pile on the agony?
Will any parish priests be able to attend on Sunday morning? I should think not - short of cancelling morning masses........
Can anyone enlighten me please? Angela

[Southern Comfort]

Can anyone tell me if it is intended to charge for the Magnificat booklet? We have 700 copies of this and are wondering what to do with them!

In this diocese, the Bishop has suggested a donation of £2 to help cover costs. Not all our parishes have received copies yet....

[Southern Comfort]

And now that we can all see the Magnificat worship aid at http://www.thepapalvisit.org.uk/2010-Visit/Papal-Liturgies-Magnificat and click on the PDF link, it is finally possible to say definitively that the MacMillan Gloria and Sanctus settings will not be used again after the two celebrations in Scotland and England. Except by liturgical masochists, of course. So sad. What a wasted opportunity.

[musicus]

I read somewhere that "Shine Jesus shine" was to be included at some stage. Poor Pope! If this is the case, why can't they include "Colours of Day" just to pile on the agony?

Shine, Jesus, shine is one of the many and various songs to be sung during the first part of the Hyde Park Vigil (so says my copy of Magnificat, p239 - see also SC's link to the online PDF below, where the page numbers will probably differ because this version spares us the innumerable invitations to subscribe to Magnificat). Pope Benedict doesn't arrive until page 240, when he will be "accompanied by music from The Priests".

Looking through Magnificat, Shine, Jesus, shine is by no means the worst music on offer during the visit, IMHO.

[docmattc]

I know that the Director of Music is prone to eccentricity but I never thought he would ask those singing Credo III to make a somewhat triumphalist(?) shift from being "in C" (as it were) to being "in D" at "Et unam sanctam catholicam et apostolicam Ecclesiam......."

Perhaps the director of music at Westminster Cathedral is prone to that eccentricity, as according to 'Magnificat' the same Eurovision-esque transposition seems to be taking place at the Mass in the Cathedral on the Saturday.

[NorthernTenor]

A welcome feature of the booklet appears to be the evidence it provides for the Bishops Conferences' committment to free reproduction of liturgical texts. I can't see any copyright or permission notices for any of the English translations (I trust sure someone will correct me if they're squirelled away somewhere).

[NorthernTenor]

A welcome feature of the booklet appears to be the evidence it provides for the Bishops Conferences' committment to free reproduction of liturgical texts. I can't see any copyright or permission notices for any of the English translations (I trust sure someone will correct me if they're squirelled away somewhere).

I'll correct myself; page 478 of the PDF!

[dmu3tem]

I read somewhere that "Shine Jesus shine" was to be included at some stage. Poor Pope! If this is the case, why can't they include "Colours of Day" just to pile on the agony? Angela

Personally I find it a splendid tune, and with a text that is all about the effects Christ should have on us as witnessing Christians. What is wrong with that, especially at a public open-air religious celebration?

'Colours of Day' has similar qualities. Its text is about mission, again something highly appropriate for public religious celebration. If you look at the melody, it is more subtle than it first appears. I discovered this when considering how to get a congregation start singing it. The harmonies, it is true, are very obvious; but this means that even a guitar player with only the most basic skills can manage them; and if need be the whole piece can be given much greater power and depth if a more sophisticated range of chords are substituted. So often the 'problem' with 'folk' is not the music in itself, but the slipshod way it is arranged and performed.

Both are highly popular with children. When the Concert Band I work with took part in a big Girl Guides parade for the North West last February I was told that this was the one item they could be guaranteed to know. If you want to get children to sing in church 'Shine Jesus Shine' is a surefire winner, even if they do put on a deliberately exaggerated popular nasal accent. I am sure Christ would have had no difficulty with this, given that he associated with 'publicans and sinners' and extolled the innocence of children. (He was pretty hard on Scribes and Pharisees - educated types like me!)

In this context it is reassuring to note that from Sacrosanctum Consilium onwards (and even in the latest issue of GIRM) the Vatican has consistently paid lip service to the importance of people expressing their Christianity through their cultural media and tastes. However it is also true that, unlike with Plainchant and other allegedly 'superior' forms of music, high ecclesiastics have not spelt out exactly how this might be done. That is why I think it absolutely right that the Pope, when he comes here, finds out what this might mean in Britain. When he travels to other parts of the globe I am sure that (like the Queen) he hears specimens of popular native culture, even if he finds some of it pretty trying. Nonetheless I hope that he comes here to listen as well as to give a message. If he is a true spiritual leader I am sure that is what he will try to do.

[NorthernTenor]

You make some useful points in relation to culture and practice, dmu, but I feel your arguments would be strengthened by a consideration of the integrity of liturgical culture. You elide an exposition of the utilitarian virtues of SJS and COD in popular devotions with remarks on the kinds of music suitable to Mass, without considering the possibility that differences in ethos and form might have implications for the kinds of music employed. So, too, your remark about

Plainchant and other allegedly 'superior' forms of music

misses the point that chant's pride of place results from its development with the liturgy over the centuries. Tradition gives it this place because it is inseparably part of our culture of public prayer, not because of any claim to relative aesthetic superiority (though you don’t need to be a Catholic to recognise its beauty - indeed, it might help not to be one ).

[Southern Comfort]

I think the problem with "Shine, Jesus, shine", apart from the extreme paucity of the lyrics, is the fact that this is yet one more song among hundreds from the contemporary Christian stable that is written to a formula. The formula is very simple: have a low tessitura verse, followed by a high tessitura refrain. The evangelicals know from long experience that what this does is give people a 'high', and so they do it deliberately. If people hyperventilate when the tessitura goes high in the refrain, then they like it all the more. You will find many songs written according to this formula. There are of course a lot of other formulae too, which I won't bore you with here, and Catholic composers have adapted one or two of them to good effect. I have even tried it myself. Yes, it works, but at what cost?

The question for liturgical musicians is: is this deliberate manipulation of the assembly? Having sat in on planning sessions for evangelical Anglican and Baptist services, I know that the answer is Yes. An almost cynical emotional crescendo is what is normally aimed at, culminating in many raised arms and cries of "Yes, Jesus!" as the music reaches its apogee.

Somehow, I don't feel that this fits in terribly well with Catholic liturgy.