presbyter wrote:How do we all feel about the inclusion of the Hail Mary in the Prayers of the Faithful? Only country in the world, I think, to do that. You certainly won't find it in Rome!
To quote Bishop David Konstant's book, Bidding Prayers for the Church's Year, "...the petitions themselves (which in England, following a mediaeval practice, concludes with the Hail Mary).." (page eight).
We may be the only country in the world to include the Hail Mary in our General Intercessions, but I don't think any other place can boast the title, Dowry of Mary either; not even Rome! It is, after all, part of a Mother's role to keep her First-born and her other children on good speaking terms!
By the way - I am now going to "stand at the foot of our stairs" and, before the statue of Virgin and Child there, I will sing the Salve before retiring.
But I wouldn't sing it during the Mass of the Assumption
presbyter wrote:By the way - I am now going to "stand at the foot of our stairs" and, before the statue of Virgin and Child there, I will sing the Salve before retiring.
But I wouldn't sing it during the Mass of the Assumption
100 per cent with Presbyter here. No problem asking Mary's intercession – although I've never understood why we can't just go direct – but most Marian hymns just don't feel right, no matter which Feast day if sung during Mass. Of course, in the old days they weren't – they were sung at Marian devotions.
Merseysider wrote:but most Marian hymns just don't feel right, no matter which Feast day if sung during Mass. Of course, in the old days they weren't – they were sung at Marian devotions.
I suspect, Merseysider, that your 'old days' were a lot different from my 'old days' where hymns both to and about Our Lady were definitely sung during Mass. I'm not defending the practice, just the fact of it. Also, do I take it that one of the main factors in the choice of hymns and chants for a particular celebration is to be the "feel right" factor? If it is then we become dictators simply ruled by our own tastes feelings - where do the "feelings" of others come into this?
Canonico wrote:one of the main factors in the choice of hymns and chants for a particular celebration is to be the "feel right" factor? If it is then we become dictators simply ruled by our own tastes feelings - where do the "feelings" of others come into this?
Yes, you are more than right here. Hope I'm not sounding to facistic!
Am I right in believing that apart form Gloria in Excelsis hymns are a relatively new addition to the mass music repertoir? I know they were sung at devotions but I seem to recall reading/hearing somewhere that mertical hymns were not usual at Mass.
Can someone clue me up?
As a convert I find the Marian hymns spiritually warming. I love 'em all.
Canonico wrote:...the petitions themselves (which in England, following a mediaeval practice, concludes with the Hail Mary)
But that's not the reason we got it, is it? Rumour suggests that the late Archbishop George Parick Dwyer demanded its inclusion because "If we don't, the faithful will never say it anymore". (Well, it is rumoured he said something like that .... there are more forceful versions of anecdotal evidence.)
presbyter wrote:Rumour suggests that the late Archbishop George Parick Dwyer demanded its inclusion because "If we don't, the faithful will never say it anymore". (Well, it is rumoured he said something like that .... there are more forceful versions of anecdotal evidence.)
Presbyter, perhaps it might be true to say that the late George Patrick and mediaeval practices were not incompatible! The liturgy entertains some strange bedfellows!:oops:
following a mediaeval practice is not necessarily a good thing, is it?... unless you want the Tridentine Mass, of course.
Merseysider wrote:although I've never understood why we can't just go direct
Nor me.
But, do you believe in the communion of saints?
I've no problem in asking the Church - past and present - for prayers when I need to. Haven't quite got my head around asking a saint-yet-to-be to pray for me... though technically they too must be in the communion of saints...
no - I didn't mean someone who is dead, who may or may not be beatified... but someone who is not yet even born...
I don't count the communion of saints to be the corpus of the canonised either... Nothing wrong in asking my dead granny to pray for me and with me, is there?
Benevenio wrote:following a mediaeval practice is not necessarily a good thing, is it?... unless you want the Tridentine Mass, of course.
Come on, Benevenio, the Council of Trent was 1545-1563. Even the most generous dating of Mediaeval Times - 500-1500 A.D. or 751-1515 A.D. cannot put Mediaeval and Tridentine together!
