Credit where it's due

[NorthernTenor]

I found this article on the intertubes about the good work being done at Leeds Cathedral.

[johnquinn39]

The children are taught Gregorian Chant, polyphony, classical masses and new, quality works composed by 20th Century and contemporary composers, proving beyond a shadow of doubt that children appreciate and rise to a challenge.

This is, of course, good to know and I second 'Credit where it's due' wholeheartedly. The youngsters are receiving a terrific musical education - and this really does go to show that it is not true that children and young people only like CCM & folk.

However, is there a danger that they (and the congregation) may be excluded from the Liturgy? Classical Masses are great music and great concert material - but do they have any place in the renewed Eucharist?

Are the youngsters learning to 'sing the Mass', and 'enter into' the psalms and liturgical texts dialogically with the congregation?

Would it be better to have English as the common language?

I love polyphony, and this is 'not excluded' by the Church.

However, are other stlyles being excluded? - Are the yongsters being taught Jazz, Rock, Reggae etc.

[blackthorn fairy]

Yes - v. well done Leeds. O that there were more such!

[oopsorganist]

The article linked above states that of 25 languages spoken in local Catholic primary schools the common language is now Latin.
What is the Latin for "Cumble and custard, please?"

A modern parable.
A recent organ concernt, beautifully played consisted of pure classical lofty music and was attended by 20 persons 80% of them over the age of 70. They sit in pain on the wooden benches. Outside the church a gang of local lads kick a ball around outside the estate pub.

The local priest agreed it was a beaufiful church building that the concert was held in but added sadly....... "but nobody comes here anymore".

[NorthernTenor]

Oops,

Is the problem that the choristers aren't Methodists; that they're young; that they're in tune with their own cultural heritage; that the Catholics running the scheme are actually doing something about the musical disengagement we bewail; or that they're tall poppies?

ps I really appreciated your post about your amazing local experience

[Southern Comfort]

I don't think anyone is questioning, let alone denigrating, the enormous amount of work that Ben Saunders and Chris McElroy have done over the past few years. What has been questioned in the past, however, is whether all or indeed any of the manifold choral activity has been having an effect on the musical life of parishes, or whether it is confined to school and 'concert' contexts. I vaguely remember Chris saying on this forum that it had had an effect, citing the cathedral and the small number of parishes where members of the cathedral team are active, but data on ordinary parishes in Leeds diocese seems hard to come by.

[musicus]

...What has been questioned in the past, however, is whether all or indeed any of the manifold choral activity has been having an effect on the musical life of parishes, or whether it is confined to school and 'concert' contexts...

Is their work intended to be diocese-wide? If so, the question is a fair one. If not, then, though it would be good to see impact across the diocese, that would be, as it were, a bonus.

That said, evaluating impact, with all the attendant paraphernalia of criteria, outcomes etc, is notoriously difficult. Case studies, penned by those on the 'receiving end', can be helpful, but they can be too anecdotal, telling us more about the authors and their predispositions, rather than scientific.