Smith & Jones v MacMillan at Coventry

[johnquinn39]

It does look rather as though the celebration will be using a new text with a new setting that no one knows except the loyal choirmembers who will have been slaving away on it beforehand. Sounds as if assembly participation in the setting will be limited and subdued, rather than full-throated and powerful. A shame, if so.

I really like both settings. However, I think SC may have a point.

Alan Smith's Gloria has a very catchy chorus - it is instantly singable, and has a feeling of urgency and excitement. The Agnus Dei (also by Alan) is, in my view, one of those pieces that looks rather austere on first hearing or look at the score, but really comes to life when sung by a big crowd - it is certainly instantly singable!

I really like Fr. Peter's acclamations. - Again, in my view instantly singable, but with plenty of musical interest. The harmonies are straightforward enough, but with plenty of musical interest (rather Flor Peeters like, in my view).

Macmillan's Kyrie looks instant also, but not the rest of the Mass. I can't help thinking that the MacMillan Mass may reduce the congregation to silence, whereas the Smith/Jones Mass stood a much better chance of getting more people involved.

[presbyter]

Well I like both settings too but "v" might be a bit of an accidental and unfortunate choice of preposition. "Versus" might imply that something confrontational is afoot. There isn't.

As neither the Smith/Jones setting nor the MacMillan setting are available to the general public yet - and cannot be at the moment for copyright reasons - let alone the date when the Bishops allow settings of new ICEL to appear - this thread is going to be restricted to members of the choir for Coventry. Perhaps we should wait until all the settings are published to discuss them.

[musicus]

Needless to say, no-one should even think of posting any of this music on here or anywhere else.

[johnquinn39]

Well I like both settings too but "v" might be a bit of an accidental and unfortunate choice of preposition. "Versus" might imply that something confrontational is afoot. There isn't.

I really am sorry for any misunderstanding - I was thinking of the meaning: 'v / vs / versus' in the Reggae and Rock sense of the word where contasting artists share the same album - Oldskool v Nuskool etc. (Also Liszt v Thalberg in the Classical world).

[musicus]

... this thread is going to be restricted to members of the choir for Coventry...

Just to clarify: anyone else is, of course, welcome to post - though, as presbyter says, they do not yet have access to these scores.

[musicus]

Well I like both settings too but "v" might be a bit of an accidental and unfortunate choice of preposition. "Versus" might imply that something confrontational is afoot. There isn't.

I really am sorry for any misunderstanding - I was thinking of the meaning: 'v / vs / versus' in the Reggae and Rock sense of the word where contasting artists share the same album - Oldskool v Nuskool etc. (Also Liszt v Thalberg in the Classical world).

That's OK, John. I was unaware of this Reggae & Rock usage. Fascinating

[NorthernTenor]

Has there been a change of plan?

[musicus]

Yes. Towards the end of April, the Birmingham Liturgy Commission's Music Committee proposed to use settings of the new (2008) ICEL texts of the eucharistic acclamations by Fr Peter Jones and of the Glory to God and Lamb of God by Alan Smith, both composers from the Archdiocese. Recently, after the choral music books had been printed and distributed, and after rehearsals were already underway (from 4th May), the Bishops of England, Wales and Scotland made it known that they wished the setting that James MacMillan was working on, and which he has recently completed, to be used, both in Glasgow and in Coventry.

I should add that the Birmingham Committee always understood that their proposals were conditional on Rome's approval. Indeed, the current proposals are similarly conditional.

[NorthernTenor]

I look forward to seeing all three in due course.

[NorthernTenor]

A suggestion: consistent use of chant for ordinary and propers would, arguably, have been better suited to the environment at Coventry, where much else will be lost to those actually attending, rather than listening over the electric wires. I don't believe the Vatican would have had any objection.

[presbyter]

Peter Jones informs me that he hopes this thread will stop now. There is no point in making comparisons. The MacMillan is being sung at Coventry and that's it.

[presbyter]

The Director of Music at Coventry informs me that he too hopes this thread will stop now. The MacMillan Mass was received only yesterday. What's needed to be done now is learn it. There is no point in fomenting what could possibly become an uncharitable war of words about pieces of music that are idiomatically distinct. No like for like comparisons can be made.

[presbyter]

A suggestion:

I humbly suggest NT that you are off topic

[docmattc]

Peter Jones informs me that he hopes this thread will stop now. There is no point in making comparisons. The MacMillan is being sung at Coventry and that's it.

Indeed. Its easy to suggest it could be different/better from the comfort of our own armchairs/choir lofts. Those actually organising the thing have a very difficult job and are to be commended for a running order that very broad in its compass. Music brings out strong opinions and whatever is planned will inevitably not be to the liking of everyone.

I will lock the thread now. After the event may be a time to review the music in the light of having experiencd it 'in situ'.