Hymn to our Lady

[gwyn]

Does anyone know of a Marian hymn the meter of which is eight ten-syllable lines? I want one to fit the Welsh tune Pantyfedwyn.

[musicus]

Gwyn,

I can't find an 8-line hymn, but I did find a 4-line one with four verses - i.e. you could sing verses 1 & 2 as verse 1, and verse 3 & 4 as verse 2. (This is often done when Love divine, all loves excelling is sung to Hyfridol). However, since I am not familiar with the tune that you have in mind, I cannot be sure that the hymn I have found will match it.

Anyway, the hymn is, Her Virgin eyes saw God incarnate born. You can find it in The Catholic Hymnbook (Gracewing, 1998), where it is set to Henry Lawes' fine tune, Farley Castle. You can also find it on the web, at:

http://www.oremus.org/hymnal/h/h203.html

where you will also be treated to a rather grim audio rendition of Lawes' tune.

I hope this helps.

M

[presbyter]

I got one that goes well to Hannover 10 10 11 11

In splendour arrayed, in vesture of gold,
The Mother of God in glory behold!
O Daughter of David, thou dwellest on high,
Excelling in brightness the hosts of the sky................

This may not answer Gwyn's question but I offer a small prize if anyone knows which collection I have plundered for this text

[presbyter]

You can also find it on the web, at:

http://www.oremus.org/hymnal/h/h203.html

where you will also be treated to a rather grim audio rendition of Lawes' tune.

I hope this helps.

Didn't help me - so many harmonics floating around from that synthetic mixture it's difficult to tell what the soprano line is

[presbyter]

I offer a small prize if anyone knows which collection I have plundered for this text

and it's not listed on http://www.oremus.org/hymnal/ though so many hymnals are - amazing!

Don't go looking in either the first or second edition of The Westminster Hymnal now - it's not there either. Where can it be

[gwyn]

Thanks for your help. I hadn't considered `Her virgin eyes . . . ' I does indeed fit the meter perfectly.

Pantyfedwyn is a rock-solid Welsh tune, often a firm favourite at eistedfodau with guaranteed full-throated reprises.

[ILRush]

Well, it is May so surprised I had to wait until the 16th to hear the cry 'no hymn to Our Lady again!'

[gwyn]

I've got away with "Tell out, my soul" as an entrance hymn last Sunday 6th in Eastertide, as well as "'Great is the Lord' my soul proclaims" a week or two ago as a hymn at the Preparation of the Gifts. But as neither are "Immaculate Mary or hearts are on fire" or "Hail! Queen of Heaven" they don't count as Hymns to our Lady in the eyes of the punter in the pew

[Benevenio]

Can I just be the party-pooper here? Personally, I can't begin to understand the Marian cult. Not even after reading Lumen Gentium again - Chapter 8 The Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God in the mystery of Christ and the Church, section iv The Cult of the Blessed Virgin in the Church in particular.

67. This most Holy Synod deliberately teaches this Catholic doctrine and at the same time admonishes all the sons of the Church that the cult, especially the liturgical cult, of the Blessed Virgin, be generously fostered, and the practices and exercises of piety, recommended by the magisterium of the Church toward her in the course of centuries be made of great moment, and those decrees, which have been given in the early days regarding the cult of images of Christ, the Blessed Virgin and the saints, be religiously observed. But it exhorts theologians and preachers of the divine word to abstain zealously both from all gross exaggerations as well as from petty narrow-mindedness in considering the singular dignity of the Mother of God. Following the study of Sacred Scripture, the Holy Fathers, the doctors and liturgy of the Church, and under the guidance of the Church's magisterium, let them rightly illustrate the duties and privileges of the Blessed Virgin which always look to Christ, the source of all truth, sanctity and piety. Let them assiduously keep away from whatever, either by word or deed, could lead separated brethren or any other into error regarding the true doctrine of the Church. Let the faithful remember moreover that true devotion consists neither in sterile or transitory affection, nor in a certain vain credulity, but proceeds from true faith, by which we are led to know the excellence of the Mother of God, and we are moved to a filial love toward our mother and to the imitation of her virtues.

So, we're not meant to lead anyone into error regarding the true doctrine of the Church... so, no marian hymns in the season of Easter Sunday liturgies as the focus in Eastertide lies elsewhere... Or is that too simplistic? In the lines preceeding, we're all exhorted to foster the liturgical cult most generously... but I presume that the magesterium of the Church doesn't expect that fostering to usurp the Easter liturgies. Hmm. Difficult. Any thoughts or guidance?

Anyway, in our parish - dedicated to Our Lady - I've never chosen a hymn to Mary at any time. Nor do I recall having been asked why not... Strange.
Perhaps my left-wing leanings are all too obvious

[Merseysider]

I also work in a parish dedicated to Our Lady and have never been asked about Marian hymns.

In a couple of weeks we're starting Evening Prayer which none of the musicians, catchecists or readers has ever experienced before. I was explaining the service to them and that at the end we'll move to the Marian Shrine for a final hymn in honour of Our Lady (yes, I know that's Night Prayer before you tell me) – there were one or two who said: "Ooh that sounds nice" but, again, not one person asking about Marian hymns in May or October – not even members of the Rosary group.

I have a theory here: While older Catholics were having some of the musical tripe of the 60s and 70s thrust upon them they were longing for those hymns they knew and loved from childhood, hymns which they sang at evening devotions and, therefore, many were Marian. Now we have largely thrown out the trip and we are offering them some of the beautiful music of Farrell, Walker and co, music which is singable and which they are coming to love. Anyone else noticed a shift? (Hm! Think this is what I mean – not sure I've phrased it very well.)

My older dears (aged up to 86 in the music group and 92 in the congregation) never stop humming Farrell's "Unless a grain of wheat" and Walker's "Teach me, O Lord" – and, I'm glad to say, the occasional gooey piece by me.

Introducing people to music which they can appreciate and enjoy, music they can call their own and their unlikely to want to sing "Deep Night has come down on the rough-spoken world and the banners of darkness are boldly unfurled". (Hm Wouldn't mind that at my funeral, though! That and Sweet Sacrament Divine.)

Oh dear – I'm waffling. Was that the fourth glass of wine?

[Merseysider]

Yes it was the wine.
Please read all the spelling and grammatical errors above as typing mistakes!
Apologies.

[presbyter]

In the lines preceeding, we're all exhorted to foster the liturgical cult most generously... but I presume that the magesterium of the Church doesn't expect that fostering to usurp the Easter liturgies. Hmm. Difficult.

I think we could be getting a bit confused here, if we are not careful, between the liturgical cult and the practice of popular devotion. Have a look at your diocesan Ordo - there's no question at all - at any time of the year - of Mary and the Saints usurping the celebration of the liturgy. There's no such thing as a Mass to Mary or of a Mass to another Saint. The memoria and feasts in the Sanctoral are Masses of Mary and the Saints - and the lectionary material and prayers for those days will reflect something appropriate for the way in which God's plan for our salvation in Jesus Christ was reflected in the life of Mary and the Saints - how they responded freely in love to God's call - an exhortation for us to act similarly. The Mass is always offered to the Father, through the Son, in the Spirit - and every Mass is a celebration of Easter.