Papal Visit

[gwyn]

Perhaps we'll be singing one of those BIG Welsh hymn tunes.

One of my favourites is Blind worm.

[presbyter]

What odds would Paddy Power give on there being a hymn tune included that is without a name?

[presbyter]

One of my favourites is Blind worm.

But to what text, Gwyn?

[gwyn]

Gwyn wrote:
One of my favourites is Blind worm.

Presbyter asked;
But to what text, Gwyn?

Well, that's a good question. I'll ponder that one this eve.

[presbyter]

Something's happening about Coventry, it seems.

http://www.abcm.org.uk/

[Southern Comfort]

Something's happening about Coventry, it seems.

http://www.abcm.org.uk/

This is quite extraordinary: six compulsory area weekday evening rehearsals, plus one compulsory Birmingham rehearsal. When JPII came to Coventry in 1982, everything was managed with just one all-day Saturday rehearsal, at a choice of three locations in the province (not the archdiocese), plus an extended rehearsal on site on the day (as is happening on this occasion).

In 1982 there were 1000+ singers in the choir. They sang everything except for one motet which was handled by the combined Clifton and Birmingham cathedral choirs alone. How many are expected this time? And what sort of music?

This schedule and scale of commitment seems likely to put quite a lot of people off, especially those travelling from neighbouring dioceses who nevertheless want to be part of the choir.

[NorthernTenor]

This is quite extraordinary

I would suggest that what is extraordinary is the idea that we should not expect effort and commitment from those who lead and provide liturgical music. Laxness in this respect goes a long way to explaining the anodyne nature of much that is sung in our parishes, and the toe-curling shoddiness that all too often characterises its performance.

[presbyter]

.......especially those travelling from neighbouring dioceses who nevertheless want to be part of the choir.

I believe that there are already about 650 people from other dioceses who have already made an arrangement with the Director of Music to sing in the choir. Perhaps there isn't room for any more.(i.e. from other dioceses)

AND - you are incorrect about regional rehearsals in 1982. There were several in parts of the Birmingham Archdiocese prior to the big rehearsal that CW took - done voluntarily and not planned by the organising committee. I should know - I myself took several of them and taught - with great patience! - many non-readers of music how to sing the motet.

AND - if you remember (and I have a photograph to prove it) - CW was (quite rightly) absolutely livid in the early hours of the morning on the day because a lot of people turned up to sing in the choir who had not been at the big rehearsal at St Chad's. No one can simply just turn up this time.

[Southern Comfort]

I believe that there are already about 650 people from other dioceses who have already made an arrangement with the Director of Music to sing in the choir. Perhaps there isn't room for any more.(i.e. from other dioceses)

Seems a little unfair on those who have not heard who the Director of Music is since there has been no publicity?

AND - you are incorrect about regional rehearsals in 1982. There were several in parts of the Birmingham Archdiocese prior to the big rehearsal that CW took - done voluntarily and not planned by the organising committee. I should know - I myself took several of them and taught - with great patience! - many non-readers of music how to sing the motet.

The Tallis motet Loquebantur variis linguiis for 7 voices was sung just by the two cathedral choirs, who were positioned centrally near the microphones for precisely that purpose. The 1000 singers could never have managed it. I have no knowledge of other rehearsals apart from those that were organised centrally.

AND - if you remember (and I have a photograph to prove it) - CW was (quite rightly) absolutely livid in the early hours of the morning on the day because a lot of people turned up to sing in the choir who had not been at the big rehearsal at St Chad's. No one can simply just turn up this time.

I don't recall that at all. Security was so tight that no one could get into the choir area without a pass, and those who hadn't been to a diocesan rehearsal didn't get one. However, I agree absolutely that those who have not done the work should not be allowed to sing. I'm merely questioning the amount of hours deemed to be required, both for participants and for those (or the person) taking the rehearsals.

The difference between this time and last time might also include the fact that in 1982 the Ordinary of the Mass had been used in parishes across the province during the preceding Lent and Eastertide, and at diocesan masses (e.g. Chrism), so it was well-known by many — especially the clergy. Will something similar happen on this occasion? It really ought to.

[presbyter]

The difference between this time and last time ............

Is mainly that last time we had a lot more time!

[presbyter]

in 1982 the Ordinary of the Mass had been used in parishes across the province during the preceding Lent and Eastertide, and at diocesan masses (e.g. Chrism), so it was well-known by many — especially the clergy. Will something similar happen on this occasion? It really ought to.

Are you asking me? I regret i am not privy to this information and cannot answer. I don't know.

[Southern Comfort]

The difference between this time and last time ............

Is mainly that last time we had a lot more time!

Very true, alas. As I said much earlier in this thread,

I'm still amazed at how little time is being allowed to prepare for the visit, because of the absence of confirmed details. Last time, we had a full year and knew exactly what we were dealing with.

[Southern Comfort]

in 1982 the Ordinary of the Mass had been used in parishes across the province during the preceding Lent and Eastertide, and at diocesan masses (e.g. Chrism), so it was well-known by many — especially the clergy. Will something similar happen on this occasion? It really ought to.

Are you asking me? I regret i am not privy to this information and cannot answer. I don't know.

No, I wasn't asking you. Just musing aloud....

[keitha]

Presbyter is correct - over about 2 months in 1982 deaneries in the Birmingham Archdiocese rehearsed the music (I know 'cos I rehearsed some of them). There was a sort of 'core choir' from the cathedral choirs in the Province which sang 'Loquebantur', some 'extra' bits in the Coventry Acclamations, the fuller parts for Bernadette Farrell's Agnus (which I don't think were ever published - but if they were, can someone please tell me where?) and 'Panis Angelicus' by Richard Dering and. I think, supplied cantors. The massed choir sang the Byrd 'Ave Verum Corpus' as well as the other stuff. As for CW's annoyance, I do remember there being some irritation at some point in the early morning - but at the time I was too engrossed in chatting up the girl that I married 2 years later to pay much attention! Otherwise, he and the smaller bloke dressed like Red Riding Hood but with B&W Minstrel gloves ( ) did a calm and highly competent job as far as I recall.

[presbyter]

the smaller bloke dressed like Red Riding Hood but with B&W Minstrel gloves ( )

..... don't forget the diaphanous alb