Is a Responsorial Canticle still a Responsorial Palm?

[Lakelark]

I wonder if members might allow a somewhat technical contribution to this thread. It will at least explain the cause of the confusion, even if it doesn't solve the problem entirely.

Psalm derives from Greek, canticle from Latin. The Septuagint (Greek OT) chose Psalms as the title of the Book of 150 (or 151), known in Hebrew as Tehillim. The Greek is not an exact equivalent of the Hebrew: Tehillim means something like "praises", but psalmoi means, strictly, "songs accompanied on a plucked instrument", or something like that. The producers of the Septuagint chose that title, in contrast to the title of Song of Songs, which is Shir Hashiroth in Hebrew, which becomes Asma Asmaton in Greek. Shir and asma are both generic words for "song", and neither confirm nor exclude instrumental accompaniment. They are translated into Latin as canticum. The Vulgate did not attempt to translate Psalmoi, but transliterated instead.

The matter is further complicated by the Hebrew titles of the individual Psalms, many of which are described as tehillah, but many are given other titles, apparently of musical significance. There is no uniformity of usage within the Book of Psalms itself.

Somewhere in the misty past there was, or was thought to be, a difference between psalms and canticles (or just plain songs), but the distinction is no longer understood, if ever it was. I think that it really does boil down to using psalm for a song from the Book of Psalms, and canticle for a song from another source. And it seems to be a matter of opinion whether this distinction is of any ultimate significance. It is no more than a recognition of the source of a song - dare I say, a bit like the perpetual question of copyright? David gets the bulk of the royalties, but Isaiah and Luke get the odd penny.

[presbyter]

Thanks Lakelark - you almost stimulated me to blow the dust off my Mowinkle.

But for readers who do not know what a Mowinkle is, and who want to find out more - this is pretty good.

http://www.biblica.com/niv/studybible/psalms.php

Here's a seasonal errrrrr....... Psalm! (Isaiah 35 - admire the poetic parallelism)

1
The wilderness and the dry land shall rejoice, •
the desert shall blossom and burst into song.

2
They shall see the glory of the Lord, •
the majesty of our God.

3
Strengthen the weary hands, •
and make firm the feeble knees.

4
Say to the anxious, 'Be strong, fear not,
your God is coming with judgement, •
coming with judgement to save you.'

5
Then shall the eyes of the blind be opened, •
and the ears of the deaf unstopped;

6
Then shall the lame leap like a hart, •
and the tongue of the dumb sing for joy.

7
For waters shall break forth in the wilderness, •
and streams in the desert;

8
The ransomed of the Lord shall return with singing, •
with everlasting joy upon their heads.

9
Joy and gladness shall be theirs, •
and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

[TimSharrock]

... psalmoi means, strictly, "songs accompanied on a plucked instrument", or something like that

so the electric violin should be played pizzicato, and the electric piano on a harpsichord setting while accompanying a psalm, but not necessarily for a canticle?

[Lakelark]

Sorry, TimSharrock, I could not possibly comment on that.

[presbyter]

so the electric violin.......

is this an oxymoronic expression from a contemporary, dynamically equivalent and liberal, modernist translation of Psalm 150 ?? The words "digital" and "organ" I can just about cope with now the meerkat has made its presence among us but "electric" and "violin" cause quite a shudder.

[TimSharrock]

so the electric violin.......

is this an oxymoronic expression from a contemporary, dynamically equivalent and liberal, modernist translation of Psalm 150 ?? The words "digital" and "organ" I can just about cope with now the meerkat has made its presence among us but "electric" and "violin" cause quite a shudder.

We introduced the electric violin after a couple of Masses with our Children's music group with our pianist away, and a violin the only instrument - it was not audible half-way down the large church. The church audio system has now been improved, and I can mix the violin, the piano, the voices of the children and have them audible throughout the church, and through the loop for those with hearing aids. The electric violin has conventional strings and a bow (if no soundbox), so is more like a "real" one than a meerkat*.

* For those who are not regular readers of the forum, or looking at this topic a while after it was written, the term 'meerkat' refers to a digital organ. (Its a long story, don't ask)-Mod

[presbyter]

Mowinckle (with the carelessly omitted "c" this time - apologies) has a category "Psalms outside the Psalter" - so on that basis, I reckon the most simple answer to the question posed is "Yes".

[Lakelark]

, , , and by way of confirming presbyter's post, Liturgia Horarum refers to the monthly plan of psalms and canticles as Psalterium. The Divine Office also gives the heading of The Psalter to the monthly plan. Included in this plan are certain New Testament canticles too. So, yes, a canticle is a psalm = except that NT commentators generally refer to the NT canticles as . . . wait for it! . . . hymns.