Service of the Word & Holy Communion

[FrGareth]

I think Fr Gareth's post is worthy of a new thread, so I've split of from the 'New translation' thread- Docmattc

I wonder what implications the new Missal will have for the text of the "Service of the Word & Holy Communion"?

Will a revised version of this appear as an integral part of the English-language Missal?

I was replacing the battered copy in our parish folder today, and it struck me...

(i) At present, the lay presider receives the response "And also with you" to the greeting. Will this be updated to match the new missal? Is the response "and with your spirit" one which assumes an ontological difference between presider and congregation? The current SW&HC uses various forms of "The Lord Be With You" for lay presidency. Will these be restricted to deacons and an alternative lay greeting prescribed?

(ii) There is a curious divergence at the Communion Rite where SW&HC currently has "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Happy are those called to the banquet of the Lamb." This is neither the existing Mass translation nor the pending one! Also, SW&HC omits the triple Agnus Dei; I can't see that this is so intrinsically linked to the Eucharistic Sacrifice that it couldn't be used here, especially with the wording of the "Behold..."

(iii) Would it be too much to hope that the new missal might have a little asterisk by sanctoral and seasonal Prayers After Communion to indicate which of them are suitable for a SW&HC, as opposed to those which make explicit reference to the sacrifice of the Mass? It requires a certain level of theological competence by lay presiders to analyse which prayers suit and which don't!

I am, of curious about how well SW&HC services are conducted, as I've never seen anyone preside at one since I was ordained priest!

FrGareth

[SOP]

Good points Fr Gareth.

Of course, I suppose there are not many priests who have ever seen SW&HC because if they are there, then surely we could have Mass!

As a layperson who has been at such services, they vary. The first one I ever attended was in Canada back in the 1980s and it was very confusing as the layperson chose to wear a black sweater over a white turtle neck which gave the impression of a dog collar. It was conducted as if by a bored priest so very little interaction, everything read and sighed off the page and a level of automation about the whole thing. The second one I attended was when I was holidaying in Scotland somewhere and popped in as it said there was a Mass. Two women led and it was fine except at the very, very end when the service was over, within seconds, whilst they were still on the altar, they turned to each other and started chatting whilst clearing things away. I must admit that if I see there is not going to be a Mass but a Service of the Word and Holy Communion, then I don't go.

Having said that, I could say similar things about some Masses too. Nerves are more evident in a SW&HC.

[docmattc]

My understanding was that 'The Lord be with you' was a greeting already restricted to the ordained.

I doubt that any such text is being added to the Missal, I thought the current thought on SW&HC was that they should only happen on a Sunday, and only in dire emergency if there was no Mass available within a radius that was practical to travel.

[VML]

We have SWaHCs any day that a priest is not available.

[SOP]

The parish my mum was in had SW&HC 3 times a week even though there were two resident priests. They had better things to do so left it to the lay people and is another reason I now avoid such services.

[Southern Comfort]

Will a revised version of this appear as an integral part of the English-language Missal?

No. It's not a part of the Missal, and therefore cannot appear in it (the same now applies, ridiculously, to Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children, under the current Roman regime).

There is, however, a new version of the Liturgy Office publication currently in preparation. No reliable information exists on what it may contain, apart from a strong suggestion that, following the Portsmouth diocesan booklet, it will advocate Divine Office + Distribution of Communion as a preferable option over Word + Communion.

(iii) Would it be too much to hope that the new missal might have a little asterisk by sanctoral and seasonal Prayers After Communion to indicate which of them are suitable for a SW&HC, as opposed to those which make explicit reference to the sacrifice of the Mass? It requires a certain level of theological competence by lay presiders to analyse which prayers suit and which don't!

This is a very important point. Yes, many lay leaders (let's not call them presiders) are not sufficiently aware to discern the appropriateness of these texts, which also include the Opening Prayer, by the way.

I don't think for one moment that any indication of the kind Gareth is suggesting will be included. As already mentioned above, it would come under the heading of "It's not in the Latin so you can't include it", apart from anything else. In any case, no one in Rome knows that these services exist, let alone what they're like.

On a similar line, many musicians are not sufficiently aware to realise that not all Communion hymns and songs (in fact very few) are usable at celebrations which are not a Eucharist.

I am, of curious about how well SW&HC services are conducted, as I've never seen anyone preside at one since I was ordained priest!

Some dioceses have training courses for lay leaders of liturgy, specifically designed to provide adequate liturgico-theological background as well as the considerable practical skills needed. <dons flameproof underwear> It would not be too much of an exaggeration to say that in the latter field lay leaders trained in this way are to a certain extent better prepared than newly-ordained priests fresh out of seminary. The practicum sessions in most seminaries are sadly inadequate, where they even exist.

PS. Thanks, doc, for making this a separate thread.

[mcb]

Also, SW&HC omits the triple Agnus Dei; I can't see that this is so intrinsically linked to the Eucharistic Sacrifice that it couldn't be used here

It accompanies the breaking of bread. If it's the reserved Sacrament being distributed, it's already been broken. (Isn't that the reason why there's no Agnus Dei in the Passion celebration on Good Friday?)

My understanding was that 'The Lord be with you' was a greeting already restricted to the ordained.

In the Exsultet there's a dialogue just like the Preface dialogue in the Eucharistic Prayer, and the first two lines (The Lord be with you. - And also with you.) are marked as to be omitted if the cantor is neither a Deacon nor a Priest.