Gospel procession

[Lakelark]

I was not aware of the possibility of repeating Alleluia after the Gospel with the advice of our Bishops to back it up. I am only a singer, and I sing what I am told to sing, without having the responsibility of determining what is sung. But pace mcb and their Lordships of England and Wales, we get the repeat Alleluia at every mass, and, believe me, it palls.

[keitha]

I suspect that it is one of these things where it more effective when done occasionally only (which is what I think the Bishops are getting at). Where it works very well is when the celebrant is a bishop and the deacon takes the gospel book to the bishop, who kisses it and then (assuming he is preaching) makes his way to the ambo or wherever else he is preaching from. During all that to-ing and fro-ing a sung alleluia or a bit of other 'processional' music often sits well. Similarly I like the sound of mcb's Eastertide practice.

[gwyn]

keitha said

I suspect that it is one of these things where it more effective when done occasionally only (which is what I think the Bishops are getting at). Where it works very well is when the celebrant is a bishop and the deacon takes the gospel book to the bishop, who kisses it and then (assuming he is preaching) makes his way to the ambo or wherever else he is preaching from. During all that to-ing and fro-ing a sung alleluia or a bit of other 'processional' music often sits well.

Now that makes sense. Otherwise the seemingly purposeless reprise of what was an acclamation to greet the gospel seems rather peculiar. Would we be waving goodbye to it?

[nazard]

I'm curious as to why the matter of repeating the Alleluia after the Gospel seems to arouse strong hostility in some who have posted here...

I am strongly against this one because of the appallingly low standard of singing and playing which is, unfortunately, far too widespread in catholic parishes everywhere I go. I believe that the way forward requires a four pronged attack.

(1) Those who choose the music choose items which are within the capability of the available resources and suitable for mass.

(2) Instrumentalists practice daily and for a significant period, at least an hour. Have a lesson with a professional teacher at least once a month, or failing that, try to have a "peer review" with the best amateur musician you can find. It is useful if singers follow a similar regime.

(3) Choirs and music groups should practice at least weekly and for at least an hour.

(4) The repertoire should be kept manageably small, especially the congregation's repertoire.

I am in favour of singing relatively little because too often mass turns into a form of musical torture. Mass acquires more dignity if sung, not howled.

The moderators might like to fork this off as the start of a new thread.

By the way, mcb, I look at your blog music listings, and like your choices. One day I hope to hear you and your choir.

[musicus]

I'm curious as to why the matter of repeating the Alleluia after the Gospel seems to arouse strong hostility in some who have posted here...

I am strongly against this one because of the appallingly low standard of singing and playing which is, unfortunately, far too widespread in catholic parishes everywhere I go.

I'm sorry, nazard, but this sounds like a non sequitur to me. I don't see how your reply relates to the Gospel Acclamation. Or are you making a general point that standards are so low that the less we sing the better?

(By all means start a new thread about standards and how to improve them - much neater and less error-prone than us splitting existing topics.)

[nazard]

... Or are you making a general point that standards are so low that the less we sing the better?

Spot on, Mr Bear!

[VML]

Ouch!

[presbyter]

I have seen this done in a way that made it natural. The "This is the Gospel ..." and the response "Praise to you ..." were sung followed by the Alleluia. Trying to remember if the actual Gospel was also sung but having a craft moment.

Aren't we now being encouraged to sing these (and other) dialogues, whether or not the Gospel is sung?

[HallamPhil]

At our cathedral the practice for a long time has been to sing the gospel greeting either side of the Gospel proclamation. Before the proclamation it covers the procession of the celebrant/deacon to the altar to collect the Book of the Gospels and take it to the ambo. After the proclamation it covers the procession of the celebrant/deacon to the other side of the ambo where the Book of the Gospels remains on display (surrounded by two candles) and then the procession of celebrant/deacon to the ambo or chair for the homily.

When the Bishop is present then these actions are lengthened slightly for the reasons mentioned earlier and occasionally the bishop may choose to preach holding the Book of the Gospels.

Yes, we greet the presence of God in the Word of the Gospel but it is also more than appropriate to respond to it in a way that reflects 'Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ'.

[Southern Comfort]

Repeating the Alleluias (but not the verse) after the proclamation of the Gospel is a fairly widespread practice. It first arose in the 1970s when people were starting to discover the benefits of a procession of a Book of the Gospels, which demands (as organist pointed out) more music than a simple Gospel Acclamation, especially if the book is being processed up from the back of the church.

The repetition of the Alleluias after the Gospel was originally designed to give honour to the Gospel on occasions when a full-blown procession did not / could not take place. The point of giving honour to the Gospel reading is to help people to realise that it's not just any old reading, it's the Gospel reading ─ Jesus Christ himself speaking to us. In my view it is perfectly appropriate to repeat the Alleluias, forming musical "bookends" to the reading and giving a sense that here is something special. Most of the places that I have come across doing it in fact also have a Gospel procession!

[monty]

Is this thread a wind-up? Is someone really advocating we discourage singing unless it is performed by trained singers?

[HallamPhil]

Not I, Lord!

[nazard]

:?: Is this thread a wind-up? Is someone really advocating we discourage singing unless it is performed by trained singers?

A bit of an exaggeration there, Monty. I'm saying that those who perform the role of music leaders take it seriously, and get themselves trained. After all, they teach the congregation, and in my experience it is helpful if the teacher is already educated. The congregation should be cultivated with a limited range of straightforward material which can be slowly increased as they learn. In the meantime, unless the congregation knows the alleluia well, singing it twice does not create an atmosphere of celebration.

This creates a problem for Easter. It would be nice to have a spectacular Alleluia, proper to the season, thundered out with great joy and gusto by the congregation. Of course, in fact, they have not sung an Alleluia of any sort for seven weeks. I use the plainsong triple Alleluia with the organ accompaniment from "Ressurexit." It has a good celebratory feel to it.

[presbyter]

I use the plainsong triple Alleluia.....

Which is a very sensible choice ........ and I'm now having a dismal thought of what it might be like for a congregation to try to limp through the jubilus of the Easter morning chant ...... I really must stop thinking!

Does anyone ever use any of the other short Alleluias in the Liber/ Graduale as Gospel Acclamations - or are we all stuck with the (overdone?) triple? (See, for example, Graduale p.825ff)

[contrabordun]

I'm saying that those who perform the role of music leaders take it seriously, and get themselves trained.

Yes, but if you meant it as a general observation (and I'd agree with it) you're OT for this thread... it did rather sound as though you were applying it particularly strongly to post-Gospel Alleluiage.