'Firmly I believe and truly'

[NorthernTenor]

My vote's with Lakelark. We should go with the lectionary texts as provided - that's the point of a lectionary, rather than a reference list list of chapters and verses. And I'm no fan of the flat, anaemic English that typifies so much of our liturgical translation.

[Gabriel]

that's the point of a lectionary, rather than a reference list list of chapters and verses.

Sorry to be pedantic, NT, but all the Ordo Lectionum Missae is is a reference list of chapters and verses.

[nazard]

... we sang these words to "an English traditional melody" named Shipston...

Shipston is in "The Catholic Hymnbook". Its a pretty little thing, and RVW had a hand in it. It deserves to be better known.

[NorthernTenor]

that's the point of a lectionary, rather than a reference list list of chapters and verses.

Sorry to be pedantic, NT, but all the Ordo Lectionum Missae is is a reference list of chapters and verses.

No need to apologise for correction on a matter of fact, Gabriel (for which thanks). I guess I'm confusing the lectionary with the authorised translation. An underlying point still holds, though, I think: the Bishops have authorised a single translation (with which I happen to have some reservations), so we should use it.

[contrabordun]

Shipston is in "The Catholic Hymnbook". Its a pretty little thing, and RVW had a hand in it. It deserves to be better known.

Now you've made me go and look it up - yes very nice. It's the set tune for FIBAT in the NEH (Halton H is listed as an alternative).

I tend to agree with sticking to the set translations, but for the pragmatic reason that it minimizes potential confusion with congregational missalettes.

[Nick Baty]

sticking to the set translations... minimizes potential confusion with congregational missalettes.

Then simply get rid of the missalettes – they're the biggest hindrance to good liturgy imaginable, especially those which prescribe specific eucharistic prayers, acclamations, verses for Alleluia for no apparent reason. Burn the lot of 'em!

[contrabordun]

Missalettes isn't quite the right word - we use the single side thingy with the Entrance and Comm. Antiphons, Readings, Psalm (and yes, Alleluia verse) on and the week's parochial doings go on the back.

[Nick Baty]

Still a hindrance. Burn, pulp, shred, dispose!

[keitha]

Missalettes/sheets - agree entirely with Nick.

Psalm texts - when singing the Responsorial Psalm I believe we should use the precribed texts; when singing psalms elswhere in the mass or other liturgies I am very happy to use Haugen, Haas et al with their varied texts (in addition, people must remember that they will have used the approved texts in the USA which currently are not the Grail translations that we have prescribed for us).

On the topic (!) - at the Papal Mass in Coventry 'Stuttgart' was used for FIBT and this has largely caught on in this neck of the woods.

[festivaltrumpet]

the Bishops have authorised a single translation (with which I happen to have some reservations), so we should use it.

Is it the case that the Bishops have authorised a single translation?
http://www.liturgyoffice.org.uk/Resources/Scripture/Versions.html

[docmattc]

A gentle reminder people that the topic is the tune to FIBAT. What translations might make up the lectionary is a subject for a different thread, please don't persue it here. Missalettes are also something we've discussed elsewhere.

Tell us about Corpus Christi Flats John. It sounds like a 1960s housing development!

[reese99tlk]

An American setting of Firmly I believe and Truly http://www.nashotah.edu/audio/Nashotah_Hymn24bit.mp3 by Canon Dr. Joseph Kucharski, Nashotah House Seminary http://www.nashotah.edu/. I think it's quite successful.

[docmattc]

Welcome to the forum reese99tlk!

[Southern Comfort]

Psalm texts - when singing the Responsorial Psalm I believe we should use the precribed texts; when singing psalms elswhere in the mass or other liturgies I am very happy to use Haugen, Haas et al with their varied texts (in addition, people must remember that they will have used the approved texts in the USA which currently are not the Grail translations that we have prescribed for us).

Off topic I know, but on a point of information: in fact Haugen, Haas, et al, often do not use the approved texts for the USA but produce their own versions. Generally, people are quite happy to use them, since they are not heretical. And don't forget, it's only a translation, not Holy Writ.

I remember the late Charles Watson OSB telling me that when he was setting scripture he would sit down with 6-8 different translations of the passage around him and make a mosaic by selecting what was best from each one of them. I suspect that Haugen and Co do the same sort of thing.

Back on topic, my own preference for FIBT is Omni Die. It's the 'traditional' Catholic tune for this text that I was brought up on in preconciliar days. The problems that some have with word stresses would be solved if they would take it at a fast enough speed! But these days I would probably opt for Stuttgart as better known.

[keitha]

I am very happy to bow to SC's greater knowledge of these matters. Nevertheless, we have a translation authorised for use as part of the Lectionary, so in my view, that is what should use for the Responsorial Psalm at Mass here, not translations (or what might be seen as paraphrases) that have not been so authorised. As I said, I am more than happy to use these other texts outside Mass and frequently use them at other parts of the Mass.

BTW, is the gap between my original post (August 2009) and SC's response a record?