New Mass text and music

[johnquinn39]

... chant and polyphony workshops aren't unknown to the SoSG...

I suspect that workshops on liturgical dance, percussion, world music, guitar playing etc. are unknown to the CMAA. (I could be mistaken, of course.)

[NorthernTenor]

NT - Is your arguing?

?? I guess this was intended as an expression of exasperation at dissent, but the exasperation gert the beeter of you .

No matter how many times people have brought this thread back to be being an exchange of views, opportunity to read what others are doing, you keep trying to make an argument and 'prove' you are right and everyone else is wrong.

I’m amused that those who deliberately distance themselves from our Church’s liturgical traditions so often themselves find dissent difficult to deal with.

At one stage I was giggling and thinking "plainchant good, everything else bad, plainchant good, everything else bad". In my opinion, a church that ONLY had plainchant at every service would be a very dull one.

SOP - or should I address you as Aunt Sally? - I have never argued for plainsong and polyphony alone; rather, I would dearly love for them to have the "pride of place" mandated by the Council. They don’t in England and Wales outside of a few places, and I suspect that the chances of any of the exceptions having a strong sympathy with the SSG are slim .

By the way, we are known as SSG in the same way that the United States of America is known as the USA, not USofA.

Thanks for t’tip.

[NorthernTenor]

It might be argued that the SSG/NPM approach is closer to the Roman tradition than the Westminster/Oratory/CMAA. (For example, Farrell and Haugen weave in ideas from LG into their texts, and Bob Hurd and Sr Delores Dufner use much more NT.)

It might, but that argument would immediately miss the point by introducing extra-liturgical texts.

[NorthernTenor]

... chant and polyphony workshops aren't unknown to the SoSG...

I suspect that workshops on liturgical dance, percussion, world music, guitar playing etc. are unknown to the CMAA. (I could be mistaken, of course.)

I suspect you're right, John

[musicus]

Today's Tablet carries an article (p 32) concerning the proposed new Mass texts and the possible problems these might pose for composers. It seems that plainsong is envisaged as having a much more prominent role in the musical settings used. It would appear that ICEL "aimed to preserve and recover the tradition of unaccompanied singing in the Roman rite".

Vestiges of earlier dusciplines remain, hwoever; all is not to be given up at once, for "UK music publisher Kevin Mayhew .... felt sure that favourites such as the 'Clap Hands Gloria' and the 'Israeli Mass' would remain in use".

Where would we be without such optimism?

M

I note that in today's Tablet (14/08/2009), Kevin Mayhew has responded to John Ainslie's letter in last week's issue. He's not a happy bunny! Here's a sample:

I can assure Mr Ainslie that our research shows that both the “Clap-hands Gloria” and “Israeli Mass” are in the category of most used settings, as are a long list of other hymns and Mass settings that might upset his finer musical feelings. Is it him that is out of step, or this great body of Catholic opinion?

QED. Not.

[Nick Baty]

I can assure Mr Ainslie that our research shows that both the “Clap-hands Gloria” and “Israeli Mass” are in the category of most used settings

Translation? They'll still both be published regularly?

[Tsume Tsuyu]

I note that in today's Tablet (14/08/2009), Kevin Mayhew has responded to John Ainslie's letter in last week's issue. He's not a happy bunny! Here's a sample:

I can assure Mr Ainslie that our research shows that both the “Clap-hands Gloria” and “Israeli Mass” are in the category of most used settings, as are a long list of other hymns and Mass settings that might upset his finer musical feelings. Is it him that is out of step, or this great body of Catholic opinion?

This amused me. It seems that the SSG continues to be criticised in some quarters for being responsible for promoting 'happy clappy' and other inane music and, in others (this time, the Mayhew publishing house), for disapproving of it! Are we giving out muddled messages? Perhaps it's time for another look at the Society's image.

The sad thing is that Kevin Mayhew has a point - in parishes where there is no liturgical formation (and that's quite a few), the Clap-hands Gloria and the Israeli Mass continue to be part of the repertoire.

[Nick Baty]

The sad thing is... in parishes where there is no liturgical formation... the Clap-hands Gloria and the Israeli Mass continue to be part of the repertoire.

So true, TT. Those parishes who don't care about the present texts are unlikely to care much about the new translations. And while they continue to sing Israeli Mass they are missing out on so much. It's actually terribly sad. The thing that depresses me most about Israeli Mass is that you never hear anyone sing it with the joy they apply to Missa Cum Jubilo, Farrell's Mass of Hope or Walker's Missa Festiva.

Interesting what you say about image but I don't think that's the real problem. The SSG, the NNPM and the many diocesan music committees all over England & Wales have worked tirelessly for years. But I know from our experiences here in Liverpool that no matter how much we do, we mostly attract the converted. The parishes which use the aforementioned items are not the ones that come to workshops.

Just before my last event I was told, "You lot are only interested in Latin and plainsong". Nothing I said could convince the dear lady that my interests and practice are a tad wider.

The important thing to remember is that we only have a 40 year tradition of singing the Mass – and that's not much time in the history of the Church. Pre-V2, only one out of any parish's Sunday Masses was celebrated in song, with a few notable exceptions. Certainly in my childhood, most singing happened at afternoon and evening devotions. As Bill Tamblyn wrote in 1971:

"Now, just because the pope says 'Sing!' people are not going to change instantly to full-throated songsters calling out the glad tidings".

It's a slow process and it's working at different rates in different parishes.

[NorthernTenor]

The important thing to remember is that we only have a 40 year tradition of singing the Mass

Good Lord - what an astounding, sweeping, innacurate assertion. Thomas: if you're reading this, would you care to comment?

Still, I'm glad to see the widespread aversion here to Kevin Mayhew and his works. It's good to establish common ground.

[Southern Comfort]

Is your arguing?

SOP, I think you must have meant to say "Is your arguing really necessary?" A rhetorical question, perhaps?!

[Southern Comfort]

The important thing to remember is that we only have a 40 year tradition of singing the Mass – and that's not much time in the history of the Church. Pre-V2, only one out of any parish's Sunday Masses was celebrated in song, with a few notable exceptions. Certainly in my childhood, most singing happened at afternoon and evening devotions.

While I agree in general, Nick, it might be good to remember that the SSG from its very foundation in 1929 was trying to encourage the congregational singing of plainchant. It was not widely successful, but it did succeed in reimplanting the chant into parishes where it had not hitherto existed, even if it was choirs rather than congregations who were singing it....

If you had said "a 40 year tradition of congregations in general singing at Mass", or "singing in the vernacular" you might have got away with it!

[Nick Baty]

With you there SC. As you say, the singing you mention, in most (although not all) parishes, was often taken over by choirs.

This would usually only happen at the High Mass. A parish with Masses at 8, 9, 10 and 11 might only have music at the 11. As few people received Communion at this late Mass, because of the eucharistic fast, many choristers would attend an early Mass to receive and go back to the later Mass to sing. My own memory is of the later Mass having the smaller congregation because it was invariably longer, although I'm sure this was not true everywhere.

Also, we still had the concept of the choral Mass. You have only to look at the collections of music still in organ lofts to discover what was being sung. In fact, I first met Dr Thomas Muir when he was digging around for such evidence in one of our local churches.

There's a parish up the road from my childhood home where they had wonderful Gregorian chant Masses until relatively recently. But these were, again, the last Mass of each Sunday and the earlier Masses had no music at all.

Ainslie, Crichton and others describe their memories of these days – and earlier times – in English Catholic Worship: Liturgical Renewal in England since 1900.

But I'd love to know the stats. If every parish in the country had singing only at their High Mass, and that Mass was one of three or four, that would leave a large percentage with no experience of music in the liturgy. If, of those, X% had Masses sung by choirs (plainsong or polyphonic) then the percentage of folk with any experience of actually singing the Mass is further reduced. So I would still happily assert that we are working within a relatively new tradition.

[docmattc]

The history of congregational singing is a topic for another thread, but Crichton certainly felt that the tradition of singing the Mass was absent in the experience of most.

By far the greater number of Catholics who went to Mass had no experience of it except as Low Mass. Nothing was sung...On this has been raised a very unsatisfactory Mass-with-hymns. People were so unacustomed to singing the Mass...

I would suggest that it was into this vacuum that such pieces as the Israeli Mass were introduced, sadly to remain to this day in many places. Mayhew's reply to John Ainslie suggesting that "he would favour some kind of censorship of the music used in liturgy" is rather amusing, as this is precisely what Liturgiam Authenticam called for (for texts anyway, if not tunes) eight years ago. Had Mayhew taken heed of this, he would no longer be publishing such pieces for Catholic congregations.

[Southern Comfort]

And his claiming to have 75% of the parish hymn book market in this country is quite an exaggeration ─ I wonder if anyone will challenge it? It couldn't even be true if you include the number of C of E churches who have Anglican HON, and it certainly isn't true of RC parishes. In this part of the country, very few Catholic parishes use Mayhew hymnbooks. Most have Laudate or CFE. The ones whose priests have bought HONL soon live to regret it.

As for "research" into what customers want, when was the last time you saw a survey from Mayhew in your parish? I've never seen one in my life. OCP does annual surveys in the USA, and freely admits that the results are unreliable. I suspect that Kevin just asks a few of his friends what they think.

[NorthernTenor]

Is your arguing?

SOP, I think you must have meant to say "Is your arguing really necessary?" A rhetorical question, perhaps?!

The examination of comfortable assumptions is always a useful thing, SC.