Passive non-participation

Well it does to the people who post here... dispassionate and reasoned debate, with a good deal of humour thrown in for good measure.

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SOP
Posts: 261
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 10:31 am
Parish / Diocese: Salford

Re: Passive non-participation

Post by SOP »

For reasons given above I would answer yes, there is a danger: if Latin is forced on congregations that don't want it it may well make them feel alienated.


I see the danger as splitting congregations and turning attending Mass into a battle field with arguments for and against which language should be used. How many parishes could or would be inclined to celebrate an additional Mass in Latin?

When I am on holiday abroad and I go to Mass, I may not understand the words but I know the Mass so know exactly where we are up to. The homily is a different story but I switch off when in it is English so that is not a big deal.

As I am typing this I am realising it is not the use of Latin that would upset me but the possibility of being excluded. Would the people who are pushing for Latin allow women to be EMs? Or readers? Or anything besides cleaners and flower arrangers?
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Nick Baty
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Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:27 am
Parish / Diocese: Formerly Our Lady Immaculate, Everton, Liverpool
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Re: Passive non-participation

Post by Nick Baty »

Peter wrote:In that sense, Monty is right that arguing about Latin is missing the point: reverting to Latin won't bring back the respect and feeling of involvement he (and I) experienced in those days, because attitudes generally have changed.

I agree with Peter. I'm not old enough to remember 1962 Missal first time round – well, I was there but a tad young – although I have vivid memories of transitional times, cards with "new" prayers on the pews and singing Missa de Angelis and, I think, Missa Orbis Factor. I remember our tiny but terrifying headmistress teaching us the Trotman Mass. Regardless of the language, I remember having to wear Sunday best and Mum quietly prodding me to pay attention.

We didn't have Children's Liturgy – wish we did! But I noticed this morning that when the children came back in, just before the Offertory, they behaved beautifully – yes, they were smiling at their mums and dads who waved to show them where they were – a tribute to Jeanette who led their service this morning. The point where we had the noise and chatter was during Communion – and it was from the old folk as they said "Hello" to various old friends as they processed down the aisle. Must admit, I've never noticed it before and always blamed visiting Baptism parties.

In Serpent on the Rock, Alice Thomas Ellis claims that Vatican II in general, and the 1970 Missal in particular, were responsible for smaller congregation, lack of reverence etc. But I reckon we'll never know: the only way to test the theory would be to re-run history with the old Missal and observe. Given the changes in youth culture at the time, I suspect the figures would not be so different. And those young people who enjoy the Tridentine Rite are discovering it afresh. Vat II happened at a time when the world was changing anyway – isn't it always – and from some quarters is blamed for all that is not as they would have it.

Our job – and that of the SSG, the NNPM and other societies – is to help make parish liturgies as prayerful, praiseful and enjoyable as possible. And to do that dialogue is vital. None of us works in a vacuum – we're part of the assembly we serve. Talking to people over after Mass coffee does reveal an awful lot about why they participate to whatever degree – but I've waffled about this elsewhere.
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gwyn
Posts: 1148
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:42 pm
Parish / Diocese: Archdiocese of Cardiff
Location: Abertillery, South Wales UK

Re: Passive non-participation

Post by gwyn »

Nick said;
Our job – and that of the SSG, the NNPM and other societies – is to help make parish liturgies as prayerful, praiseful and enjoyable as possible. And to do that dialogue is vital. None of us works in a vacuum – we're part of the assembly we serve. Talking to people over after Mass coffee does reveal an awful lot about why they participate to whatever degree

Amen to that.
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