How many planners?

[VML]

How many people do you have on your liturgy/ music planning group? What is the ideal way to plan parish music?

[Hare]

IMHO, the fewer the better! Rightly or wrongly, I do it all myself with PP's backing.

Previous PP wanted a commitee, and it didn't work ( ) as random people turned up thinking that all was involved was putting on their favourite hymns.

[Nick Baty]

Musically, I am not sure how it can work. In a small parish like ours, music has to be planned in detail three or four months ahead, in general a year ahead and with an overview of two or three years. I'm not sure how this would work in a group situation. In a larger parish, where there are several music groups but who need some common repertoire, I would imagine planning has to be more detailed.

However, the parish musician should be willing and able to present their planning and should be willing to hear suggestions, not just from the liturgy/planning group but from the parish in general.

[docmattc]

I too think planning by committee doesn't work, certainly not in the details. But, as Nick says, in a parish with several music groups there would need to be co-ordination. I know of a parish where each Sunday of the month is looked after by a different music group and don't know if there is any continuity between Sundays there. If there isn't co-ordination then there is no hope of reflecting the rhythm of the liturgical year musically.

committee planning in theory gives the opportunity for lots of liturgical formation, but in reality its easy "my favourite hymns" to be picked. It also runs the risk of what a former PP called 'keyword triggers': ending up with five different settings of psalm 23 in a Mass because the first reading makes a passing reference to sheep, even though psalm 23 has nothing to do with the scriptures of the day.


Assuming the same musicians every week (which was my situation), unilateral planning works IF:
The planner is liturgically aware
Is sympathetic to the community (s)he is serving
Is prepared to include a broad range, not just cater to their own tastes


That said, there is no ideal way. You have to find the way which works best for you and your parish

[VML]

Ouch! That is exactly my dilemma now. I have probably done most of it alone, with PP support for far too long, twenty years or so,taking one Sunday a month off over the last five years, and occasional input from others.
Now the organiser of my Sunday off has taken to inviting the whole choir/ music group, as many as wish, to meet each month to plan. As it has happened, it is usually six or seven, but I am finding this extremely stressful.
When I turned up witha few items filled in after Christmas, I was roundly told 'I thought This was the planning meeting.'
The tension is palpable, even though on Sundays we have got through somehow.
We have one new singer/ guitarist who will be a great asset as he has moved here from a large parish in the next deanery where he led the music group, - and had fifteen or so turn up for practices. But when he and the lady who plans told me after Mass today, 'We must get rid of the benches, we can't hear you,' I felt put down.

This week at practice, (three of us, the planner was at work late) the other two asked me what I knew about what the changes will mean. I was unwise enough to say it will mean we will be more true to the words of the liturgy, and not have such things as Israeli, American, etc.
'I grew up with those! We can't get rid of those.'
Next week until Sunday before Lent will not be planned until this coming Wednesday.
Do I tell them to plan and deliver this five weeks and I will sort Lent and Easter?

[Nick Baty]

When I first read of your monthly week off I was a tad envious as, at the moment, I can't manage a single Sunday off all year. The envy subsided when reading what you are dealing with.

There is no way one Sunday a month can be planned separately – it simply doesn't work unless the whole is planned together. As Matt observed above, the cycle and rhythm of the liturgical year disappears. Perhaps your new singer's influence will have a positive effect.

the planner was at work late

Sorry? She's either doing this or she isn't. Needs to sort out her priorities. She can't be absent from events and still call the shots.

I was unwise enough to say it will mean we will be more true to the words of the liturgy, and not have such things as Israeli, American, etc. 'I grew up with those! We can't get rid of those.'

Well, apart from the facts that 1) they're absolute crap and 2) they were never allowed in the first place, that sort of versification was forbidden in 1980 by Inaestimable Donum when it said that "to modify the Eucharist Prayers approved by the Church or to adopt others privately composed is a most serious abuse".

How's your right hook?

[VML]

Thanks Nick,
This board plays a great part in keeping me sane!

[Nick Baty]

When I'm stressed, my PP winks and says, "This job would be easy without people, Nick".

[VML]

Absolutely!

[gwyn]

Isn't there something about a camel being a horse that was designed by a committee?
Less is more.

[Nick Baty]

I agree. Although any parish MD who doesn't have the parish behind him/her (sort that one out, Grail!) probably isn't going to get very far anyway.

[gwyn]

I agree. Although any parish MD who doesn't have the parish behind him/her (sort that one out, Grail!) probably isn't going to get very far anyway.

Indeed. A parish MD needs to be available and accessable to his/her community and open to suggestion and criticism. For him/her not to be would pave the way for necrotic liturgy.

Here in sunny Abergavenny the choir toremntor/organ basher selects what's sung, this with the approval of the pp and the support of the community. Rarely does a Sunday goes by without sponteneous feedback from parishoners requesting, suggesting or advising.

Works for us, might not be the model that would work at St. Judas Iscariot's without.

[Hare]

I agree. Although any parish MD who doesn't have the parish behind him/her (sort that one out, Grail!) probably isn't going to get very far anyway.

Indeed. A parish MD needs to be available and accessable to his/her community and open to suggestion and criticism. For him/her not to be would pave the way for necrotic liturgy.

Here in sunny Abergavenny the choir toremntor/organ basher selects what's sung, this with the approval of the pp and the support of the community. Rarely does a Sunday goes by without sponteneous feedback from parishoners requesting, suggesting or advising.

Works for us, might not be the model that would work at St. Judas Iscariot's without.

Whilst not for one moment suggesting thayt what I do is above criticism, I think it is important to make the distinction between informed criticism and the "that's no good 'cos I don't like it" brigade. I frequently do not like flower arrangements in church, but not being a flower arranger I never have, and never would, criticize those who are. Strange how everyone seems to be allowed to have their say on the music though.

[MaryR]

We plan by committee in our parish.

When our current MD took on the job, he said he would only do it if he had some help and so four or five of us have met regularly since then to plan the music. We also help with producing the weekly music sheets, setting up before Mass, tidying up afterwards, ferrying youngsters to and from rehearsals, and anything else that needs doing.

The planning works well for several reasons:

• Having more than one person choosing hymns means that we have more to choose from since we're mostly from different parishes originally
• People can bring settings or songs they’ve come across elsewhere to the meetings for consideration, broadening our parish repertoire over time
• One or other of us will often point the practicalities of using certain pieces, or the danger of having a week where everything is new – the sort of thing that might be missed by a busy MD
• Most importantly, we know who is boss! Once we’ve cogitated and ruminated and made our suggestions, our MD always has the final word

.... but in reality its easy "my favourite hymns" to be picked. It also runs the risk of what a former PP called 'keyword triggers': ending up with five different settings of psalm 23 in a Mass because the first reading makes a passing reference to sheep, even though psalm 23 has nothing to do with the scriptures of the day.

I don’t see how planning by committee makes this more likely. We always listen to the readings and antiphons for a particular week before planning it and although a phrase may prompt suggestions of several different songs, we certainly don’t just stick them all in!

In the early days of planning, it felt as though we were invited to the meetings but didn’t have much to contribute. None of us were real musicians and we had had little involvement with music and liturgy. Our planning sessions have been an excellent source of formation for us (thanks MD!) and we now (mostly) make informed suggestions.

I think (hope) our MD would say if he found our contributions more of a hindrance than a help. He hasn't so far....

[VML]

Thanks Mary, wise words.
As you say, it is good to have input, but there needs to be someone in charge overall, and that would normally be the MD. The difficulties arise when another very vocal member takes over, and puts in three new items in two weeks, with hardly any practice. Possible, but not ideal.